TRANSCRIPT
0:00:00 - (Kathy):
If you think about steering a boat, and even if you've never been in a boat or a plane, those are steered by degrees. We have degrees in the earth. And even if you move one degree in a boat, you will get to a different port. So it's about making those micro changes in your life. What is one thing you can do? And I was talking to one of my daughters today, and she'd stopped really exercising for a while and it wasn't feeling good to her. So she's making these small micro goals. Like this month I'm doing this, and then next month she gets to do that and bring that in.
0:00:32 - (Kathy):
Can you focus on one thing at a time to shift in your life? And little by little, a little becomes a lot.
0:00:40 - (Marcia):
Welcome to the Illuminating Wisdom podcast. I'm your host, Marcia Narine Weldon, and I'm a lawyer, business strategist, corporate trainer, and executive coach. Each week, I'm going to bring you my favorite entrepreneurs, thought leaders, legal professionals, and other coaches who will inspire, educate and empower you. If you are a woman over 50, you know a woman over 50, you work with a woman over 50, or you love a woman over 50, this episode is for you. So when I tell people I'm 56, they often say, you don't look that old, you don't act that old.
0:01:12 - (Marcia):
Today we're going to talk about age, gender, and whether, as the late singer Aaliyah said, age ain't nothing but a number. My guest today is Kathy Mela. She's a mindset empowerment coach and a best selling author. But before I introduce her, this episode is sponsored by illuminating Wisdom, a coaching, consulting and corporate wellness firm. And the release reset reinvent retreat for professional, entrepreneurial women.
0:01:34 - (Marcia):
And it's going to be held in Jamaica February 15, 21st, where you'll bask in eco luxury with a private chef, a private villa on the beach. You'll have personal and professional coaching, yoga, farm to table meals, networking, sound healing excursions, and so much more. And you're going to leave that retreat with a plan for your next year, three years and five years, a new sense of self love, and possibly your next best friend or business partner. So I hope to see you in Jamaica with me and my two co hosts in February.
0:02:01 - (Marcia):
So now onto the episode and make sure you stay to the end because Kathy has a special gift for you. So, Kathy, as I said, you're a best selling author, as am I. And we're co authors in a book, and we're part of the same business mastermind. I so I know quite a bit about you. What do you want the audience to know about you so that they say, I've got to stay tuned to the end?
0:02:24 - (Kathy):
That's a great question. There's so much that I wanted to share, and I really think the main thing is that I want the audience to know that I'm passionate about who I am and passionate about helping other women really understand who they are. I think we women sometimes lose sight of that in society and in life as we get kind of hung up in some of our roles as maybe a mother or a wife or a sister or a daughter or a worker, like whatever we're doing in our profession. So we get kind of focused on that identity and we lose the true essence of who we are.
0:03:05 - (Kathy):
So that's what I have learned about myself, is who I really am. I kind of got lost along the way in life, and so who I really am, and that's what I guide other women to really know the essence of themselves.
0:03:17 - (Marcia):
I love it. So you specialize in my demographic, women over 50. So when I was growing up, 50 seemed really old, and I don't remember this much press attention to this age group right now. So maybe it's because I am in this demographic. So I see it everywhere. Like when you buy a new car, all of a sudden you see that car everywhere. I, but everyone, including Oprah Winfrey, everyone is now talking about women like you and me. So how is it different to be a woman over 50 now than it was maybe ten or 20 years ago? So what's changed?
0:03:46 - (Marcia):
And is it easier or is it harder right now?
0:03:50 - (Kathy):
That's a good question. Probably. In some ways, I feel like it might be harder, partly because, partly because we are, like, inundated with information. We are in that information age where we're so overloaded that I think sometimes that actually brings in action in people, especially women over 50. And I also think there's this still in our society, this look about aging as not, you know, we have a lot of things that are anti aging because we want to look young and be young.
0:04:25 - (Kathy):
And so that really sets us up for not wanting to age. And, you know, the truth is we're all aging all the time. Exactly. So how do we embrace that in a way that helps us feel good about ourselves? Because I know so many women as they've gotten over 50, that they're not feeling good about themselves. And so how do we move through that? So I think that all this information out there is a little bit overload, and we often don't know who's really telling us what the truth is. You know, what's really our truth.
0:04:58 - (Kathy):
So I think it might be a little bit harder from that standpoint.
0:05:02 - (Marcia):
Yeah. And I think that's really important because you can find information on almost anything. Right. So a lot of my friends are going through menopause or perimenopause, and they are overwhelmed with the amount of information. Whereas back in the day, you know, your grandmother or your mother, if they were comfortable talking about it, would say, take this tea, drink this, do that, you'll feel better.
0:05:20 - (Marcia):
Or it was like, this is the curse and the curse of being a woman, and you're just gonna have to suffer until you die. Right. I think there are some benefits to this information, but how do people distill what they need to know? And I think sometimes it's whether we have the gift of discernment, because we all look things up for many people, especially if you didn't have a mother or an aunt or a grandmother who kind of said, this is what it's going to be like, may not know. And again, it's so different now to be over 50 today than it was even ten years ago, whether that's because of social media, because of technology, because everybody wants to live their best life, and I'm sure you have a lot of clients, like, I'm not living my best life. I'm just really tired right now.
0:05:59 - (Marcia):
So what do you say to people to say, this is where, other than hiring a coach like you, you can kind of get some good information, or how do you distill all that's out there?
0:06:13 - (Kathy):
Well, I think practicing some inner work. You know, this is what I find a lot of women are a little bit against or fearful of is looking at themselves, because we're not taught how to do that. We don't know how to do that. And finding ways that you can, you know, connect with other people, number one. So, you know, you're not alone in this. And I think that that's another one that I hear, that a lot of people think they're the only one experiencing this. This thing that's happening to them.
0:06:40 - (Kathy):
And the truth is we're. We're all experiencing some forms of it. And so when you get in groups and talk it out, and there's so many groups, you know, I'm on a clubhouse group. I'm on two clubhouse groups. I'm still in clubhouse a little bit, and I stay in groups, and I have conversations with women, so. And I have conversations with men, because men are aging as well. And so it's just like, what is happening? And so I would say the first thing that I always like to start with is awareness, because if you're not even aware of what's going on in your own body and, you know, like, or in your own mind or your own emotions, then you can't.
0:07:18 - (Kathy):
You don't know what to do with that. So for the first thing is to start with some awareness of where you're at. And, you know, if you don't want to hire a coach or find someone who can start talking to your friends, find some friends or find a community of women who you can connect with. I know so many women who are running community groups, including myself. And how does that look for you? Can you find someplace where you feel safe and comfortable to talk about the things that you want to talk about?
0:07:47 - (Marcia):
And I don't want to plug my retreat because that's tacky, but it's actually the reason we're doing it. We were actually sitting there talking to women who are, you know, a group of women who were just talking, like, you know, sometimes either they've outgrown some people or they don't know where the next stage of their life to go. And it's like, I just wish I could find some people to sit down and just talk to, you know, in a safe space where people get it, where I'm around my people.
0:08:11 - (Marcia):
Right. So that's really important. So you have a really interesting trajectory. You used to be a NICU nurse, so you used to work with babies and families at the most critical stage of their life, where babies are born very severely ill, very underweight, may or may not survive. I have to imagine that takes a toll on you. And now you went to working with women at a key turning point in their lives. So why this group of women, besides the fact that you're in this group of women?
0:08:43 - (Marcia):
And how did working in hospital settings under those. Tremendously stressful, but I'm sure gratifying when you saw how the babies would thrive and the parents could take the children home. But how did you go from working in hospital settings for over 40 years to now? And how did that work inspire your mission today?
0:09:03 - (Kathy):
So working in hospitals for 45 years and saving babies lives and working with a lot of women in the hospitals, I definitely worked with a lot of doctors and a lot of men as well. But most of the people that I worked with, most of my coworkers were women. And so I feel like I've kind of grown with them. And I've always been interested in supporting other women. I've always, you know, there's this women feel a little bit I can connect with men. And I actually did that a lot of my job because the, usually the first person I talked to when a baby was sick was the father because the mother, you know, might have just delivered, and so she wasn't.
0:09:42 - (Kathy):
I talked to her second. And so I do have that ability to relate to men, and yet I'm finding a really more about. So this is a little personal, but for a long time, I stepped into a masculine side of my life. I became a single mom when my fourth child was born, and I stood up and I became a leader. And I thought I was supposed to lead like men because that's how we're taught. And I'm really finding now my feminine side and tapping into that femininity and what does that look like?
0:10:12 - (Kathy):
As a leader of myself and as a leader of others, I'm very fascinated with that aspect. And so that's how I've kind of come to this aspect of women and women over 50 because, you know, and personal as well. Like, I have three daughters. I have four children. Three of them are daughters, and three of them are in their forties. And I'm listening to the things they're going through, and I know they're getting close to that age of 50 and looking at how you can begin to prepare, you know, that we have this fear of retirement. I feel like that I've noticed, and I hear a lot of it because I am in that, quote, retirement phase from my career.
0:10:50 - (Kathy):
And we get to look at it differently. We get to start looking at it a little differently beforehand so we can prepare. And then maybe during and after you've retired, what does that look like? So I really feel like this is a passion on my heart. And part of it happened when my best friend Rita died in 2017, and she was 54, and she died from ovarian cancer, which is, you know, why I wear teal. And my business is all about teal. And I have a lot of things around the teal, you know, analogy and anagram.
0:11:20 - (Kathy):
And it's important to me. When she died, I realized, like, okay, this happens, and I, we can talk about the sadness of it. Yes. And yet I know she didn't want me to sit in sadness all the time. Like, I know that I get to live and she didn't. And so how do I play full out? How do I live full out in my own life, in honor of myself and her and other people who don't get to. We get to. This is what we forget. We get to live right now, and many people don't. Or many people are living with, you know, ways that they're not able to live full out in their lives. And so it's important to me to model that, really. That's, you know, in my coaching world, I shifted a little bit about 15 years ago while I was in my career. I started taking some courses and things that led me into this coaching arena. I didn't even know it existed, and it really held a mirror up for myself about how I was showing up in my life.
0:12:19 - (Kathy):
And that's when I started to make shifts and changes in my own life that led me to where I am today. So I hope that answers your question.
0:12:25 - (Marcia):
There's like 75 questions I want to ask from that. From that answer. The first one is, you talked about being in your masculine and then now finding your feminine. What does that mean and what does that look like, especially when you get older? I think it's very common to see people talk about it on social media or others, or women play in their masculine, or women need to be in their feminine. I'm wondering if that's. And often I see it in dating advice and for younger people, you're never going to find a man because you're acting, you're masculine.
0:12:57 - (Marcia):
How does that play out when you're a little bit older? Because, like you, right. A lot of, and I also was a single mother, right. And we have a lot of people listening, are single mother mothers. They're professionals, they're entrepreneurs, they're leaders. And by definition, we're taught to lead in a masculine way. And sometimes it's hard to turn that off. So the question is, do we need to turn that off? And what does it mean to act in your feminine, especially as you're getting older?
0:13:25 - (Kathy):
That's a loaded question. So, you know, I think to clarify some things about, you know, this, looking at what acting in your feminine, acting in your masculine is, because I've heard all that dating things and all those things, you know, again, so it does relate a lot to dating, and yet it really relates to life. And so I see the masculine side as the more logical, practical, linear thinking kind of person. And I'm, you know, I'm putting, first of all, I'm not talking about men and women right now. We're talking about masculine feminine, and we all have masculine and feminine traits within us. The question is, what shows up the most.
0:14:04 - (Kathy):
And what's your go to? And my go to has, when I look back at my life, has been a lot of pull myself up by the bootstraps, get it together, do these things, don't cry. All these things that are more of a masculine thing, don't show your emotions. Stuff it down. This is how I survived in the medical arena, was stuffing it down, and I realized that didn't work. And again, part of me going through my own coaching experience, being coached and learning things about myself, was like, oh, I have been in this one area way too much. It's too heavy over here that I haven't gone to the feminine side. And so what is the feminine side? The feminine side is a little more the creative side, the kindness model, the being gentle and kind with yourself and just sort of. And playful.
0:14:55 - (Kathy):
That's the other thing, is playful. And so I didn't have a lot of play in my life for a long time. So when I think at this age of my life where I concentrate a lot, is what I call being in the flow versus the push. And I lived the push for decades. What it's like to just constantly push, push, push, push. Nothing wrong with pushing. Let's talk that. Let's just talk that. I'm not talking about good, bad, right or wrong here. Nothing wrong with pushing.
0:15:21 - (Kathy):
But is it it, is it aligned with you? And what's the essence of you? And can you bring some play and fun into it? And, you know, when I look back at my life, and I like to do this with my clients because I think it's important sometimes to look back to see who have you been? I always liked some laughter and fun and joy in it, and I've sort of, I sort of lost that for a little while, got real serious.
0:15:44 - (Kathy):
And again, there are times to be real serious, and I worked in a serious area of the hospital, and there's also time to bring play into it. So it's finding that harmony of the balance. You know, I don't really like that word balance because I don't know that we're always really balanced, but the harmony of bringing. Yeah, of bringing the feminine, the masculine of you together, you know, like, what does that look like? How do you, for somebody that's always creative and always playful, how do you get a little more linear? How do you bring that into your life? So it's looking at each person because we're all unique and different, and what is it you need to help you harmonize better in your life?
0:16:21 - (Kathy):
And so for me, that's what I've looked at. It's bringing more play, more flow, more fun and enjoyment into my life. And seeing that it doesn't have to be going on a vacation or going to a retreat. Nothing wrong with retreats. I love retreats. To find joy. How do I find joy every single day?
0:16:40 - (Marcia):
100%? I think every day. We have got to find that. I just came back from walking for about almost 2 hours. I feel really relaxed and I can take on the day in a very, very different way. That was my little mini retreat. I was listening to beautiful music I was looking at. Of course, I live across the street from the beach, so it's like being in Jamaica, but you don't have to have that. What is your happy place? For some people that could be sitting there crocheting as music is playing behind them and they've got candles. It could be anything.
0:17:10 - (Marcia):
I want to go back to the other question, though, again, the 75 things I could ask you just from that last answer you gave before, you said you have three daughters, right? And they're in their forties, but in the workplace, we have about five generations in the workplace, and I think women at 50 and over are at a very interesting stage. Right? They may be managing people, they may be the boss. They may have younger people than them managing them.
0:17:35 - (Marcia):
If they're lucky, they're close to retirement. But most people listening are probably years away from retirement. But they might also be thinking like, is this all there is? Is this what I'm supposed to be doing? So two questions from this. One, what do you think are some misconceptions people have about women that are 50 and over in the workplace? Maybe it's misperceptions about their capabilities, their gifts, what they can contribute.
0:17:57 - (Marcia):
And then, number two, when you're dealing with women in the workplace who are kind of in that in between stage, what are some of the biggest difficulties? You're hearing that they're saying.
0:18:10 - (Kathy):
Okay, so what are people thinking of them? So lots of challenges in there. I mean, when, you know, I think back to, I find that a lot of professional women are maybe get into that leadership, and even if they don't have a title of leadership, they're still leading in a way. And yet I do think that there's some young people, younger people that look at people like, well, it doesn't have to be that way.
0:18:40 - (Kathy):
I think what I want to say about that is some of it's true. What they're thinking about is, are we stuck in our ways and can we shift and maybe shift a little something to understand some other generations and also stand in our power. So I feel like there's a blending of that that needs to happen. And that's the challenge is the blending of owning your power and yet being willing to listen to other people and say, oh, you know, can we shift this a little bit and change? And, you know, I hear from, you know, especially my daughters, and I am sometimes around some of their friends, and my daughters are high achievers like me.
0:19:25 - (Kathy):
Sometimes I joke and say, I don't know where they got it from. Actually, my son's a pretty high achiever as well. And so they're, you know, they're leaders in their own right in their fields, and I yet they, I think this thing of, it's lonely at the top. So if you are a leader, it feels kind of lonely and it doesn't have to be. And I feel like they're exhausted and tired and feel like no one gets them.
0:19:51 - (Kathy):
I think that's, and yet in listening to many generations, I feel like that's a thread, like nobody gets them. I just spent a few weeks with my granddaughter in law, who is in her twenties, late twenties, just had a second baby, and she's moved. Thank you. And she's moved to a new area. My grandson's in the army and, you know, trying to find friends. And she's not necessarily a, you know, she's friendly, but she's not necessarily somebody to reach out all the time. So it's like, how does she navigate that? So I think we're all navigating these things at any given time. And so it's, I call them the seasons of life.
0:20:30 - (Kathy):
And so they're the seasons of life. And they, I feel like they kind of go by decades, but not necessarily because depends on, you know, where you're at in life. But there's seasons to each person's life, and you go through a different season of what this looks like. And her and I were actually just talking about this, of how your family changes as you get older, like when you develop your own family, like her, like she's realizing she's not always going to be with her parents or my grandson's parents for the holidays. And how do you navigate that? And so you're always navigating all these pieces.
0:21:04 - (Kathy):
And this is part of the workforce as well, navigating new people coming in. You know, I was a leader, and then at one time I wasn't anymore towards the end of my career. And how do you navigate that? And then how do you navigate leaving it? And so it's always this piece of navigating it. And ask the second question again, because I feel like I want to tie that together.
0:21:25 - (Marcia):
There was a question about what are the misconceptions? And then what are people complaining about in their fifties? But I think you kind of did tie them together, to be honest. I think your answer kind of collapsed them, which was done beautifully. I appreciate that. I want to talk to you about how people navigate things, and one of the things that when I work with coaching clients, and I tend to work with people like you who are high performers, high achievers, a lot of them are lawyers and that kind of stuff.
0:21:53 - (Marcia):
High stress roles, but not more stressful than what you did. Nick, your nurse.
0:21:57 - (Kathy):
Right.
0:21:57 - (Marcia):
Because I often tell my law students and my clients, look, it's not life or death. No one's going to die, but you worked with people, and more importantly, infants who were in a life and death situation. How did you take care of yourself? Because I think you probably have some very. And you may or may not have done it very well at all for all 45 years. So either what did you do well to take care of yourself during that time, or, in retrospect, what might you have done differently from a self care? Because people use self care like, I'll take a bubble bath. That's okay. That's not enough if you've seen a child die. Right? That's not enough if you're dealing with some very serious, heavy issues which can affect whether it's one family or lots of people.
0:22:40 - (Marcia):
So what are some strategies that you have that could help some of the listeners who are dealing with high stress, high stakes, feel like they can't fail. Failure is not an option.
0:22:52 - (Kathy):
Yeah. Thanks for bringing this up, Marcia. This is a great topic because it is about navigating these kinds of things, and I didn't do it well for a long time. I stuffed it, as I alluded to that earlier, learned that that's how you got through life. You just stuff it down. And it really became. I had a coach one time asked me to describe it, and this is course dating myself, but I described it as a Dewey decimal system box. Remember those boxes in the library? It was, like, sitting in my chest, but the boxes weren't closing. They were, like, ready to explode. And I would have those moments of explosion, of anger, of frustration, and, you know, come up in my life at times. And I, you know, it was an awareness.
0:23:34 - (Kathy):
That's why I say awareness is so important, because I wasn't really aware of how this was affecting me and the people and impact around me until I had someone hold that mirror up for me. And so it's finding ways to get that mirror held up for you, whether, again, whether it's being with, you know, a counselor or a coach or a community of women or reading a growth book, like doing something. And I know a lot of people go, I don't. I don't want to read the self help growth. Okay, then that's okay. You don't have to.
0:24:07 - (Kathy):
It's getting to know yourself and getting to know yourself, not just the physical aspect of you, but it's the deeper aspect of the emotions. Ooh, I said the word emotions and feelings because we're taught not to acknowledge that stuff. And, you know, I understand why we're taught. I'm not blaming anybody. This isn't a blame and shame game. It's like, it's just the reality that we're taught not to. And so taking, finding ways and strategies that work for you to do that. And if a bubble bath works for you to disconnect and you read a book and that makes you feel refreshed, great.
0:24:42 - (Kathy):
However, I find that a lot of people, that's not all it is. I I'm hearing from some people, you know, there there's substance. This is why we have a substance abuse issue with alcohol and drugs, because a lot of people want to numb it. This is why I think we talk about this sort of Internet addiction to different things, of scrolling, scrolling, scrolling. And again, those things are not bad. It's like, how much of that is in our life?
0:25:06 - (Kathy):
And is that really serving us? I'm not saying a little escapism isn't as bad. It's not. It's like, what is it you're doing and how do you shift that? How do you take it to the next level? And I adopt the one degree change. This is something I learned about 1015 years ago. It's really. And so we're talking about navigation. So this is my analogy. I like analogies. If you think about steering a boat and even if you've never been in a boat or a plane, those are steered by degrees. We have degrees in the earth.
0:25:38 - (Kathy):
And even if you move one degree in a boat, you will get to a different port. So it's about making those micro changes in your life. What is one thing you can do? And I was talking to one of my daughters today, and she's getting, you know, she'd stopped really exercising for a while and it wasn't feeling good to her. So she's making these small micro goals. Like this month I'm doing this, and then next month she gets to do that and bring that in.
0:26:04 - (Kathy):
And, you know, sometimes when we do goals, we go, how many goals do we have? We have like seven or ten goals. And can you focus on one thing at a time to shift in your life and make one micro change? And then as you make that micro change. Oh, that feels good. What's the next micro change I want to make? So that's kind of how what has worked for me in the past 1015 years that I've adopted is making those little changes and little by little, a little becomes a lot of.
0:26:30 - (Marcia):
Absolutely. A colleague of mine calls it TNT tiny, noticeable things. Right. And sometimes you do little things, but over time that's going to come up. And speaking of analogies, you have a fantastic analogy about a pool. And as we're filming this, it's during the Summer Olympics, and you wrote a blog post where you talk about the pool side to describe different personal archetypes. So what are they? I'm going to ask you about each of them specifically.
0:26:58 - (Marcia):
So first describe them and then we'll talk about each one. And for the listeners, I want you to see if you can identify yourself. So what's the first one?
0:27:07 - (Kathy):
So the first, and before I even say that, I want to say again, I don't want these to be put into that it's good or bad or right or wrong to be any of them. And I really feel like many of us may flow through some of them at different times in different phases and different areas of our life. So specifically, the first one is sunbathers. And, you know, I talk about that a lot. The sunbathers, they're sitting there by the side of the pool. They're enjoying the sun and they have no intention of getting in that pool.
0:27:35 - (Kathy):
They don't want to. And so they're content on the sidelines. That's the sunbathers.
0:27:41 - (Marcia):
So how do you get them to become a more active participant in their lives? Right, because they enjoy the safety of the sidelines. And again, that might be a self protective measure. It might be, look, this is just, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Why do I have to do anything different? Right. And so they enjoy the safety of the slime. So what's some of the signs that they need to start engaging more fully? And how do you support them in taking that first step?
0:28:04 - (Kathy):
I think the first sign is some dissatisfaction, because if they're totally satisfied sitting on the side of the pool and they're content with their life, you know, there's not anything I'm going to say or anyone's going to say that's going to shift that it's like it has to be an internal desire for something different. So there has to be some dissatisfaction. Maybe the sun's getting a little too hot.
0:28:27 - (Kathy):
You know, maybe they need to cool off a little bit. You know, they might choose to go in the house rather than, or go in the shade rather than go in the pool. So. But that's still a change. So it's an awareness of some discomfort because we can sit in comfort oftentimes for a while. But it's sometimes if you sit, it's like if you sit on the couch and watch tv for, you know, three, four, 5 hours, it before three, four, 5 hours, it gets uncomfortable. You're moving around, you're like, okay, so it's noticing.
0:28:55 - (Kathy):
What's discomfort? Where's the uncomfortableness in your life?
0:28:58 - (Marcia):
So let's move on to the toe dippers.
0:29:04 - (Kathy):
Yeah, the toe dippers.
0:29:05 - (Marcia):
I think you've described them like, they test the waters, but they hesitate to commit. They struggle with the fears of the unknown. So what are the typical fears? I think a lot of people I know are the toe dippers. What are the typical fears that the toe dippers face? And then what can they do to overcome those fears? So they can take that plunge.
0:29:24 - (Kathy):
Yeah. So the toe dippers. Yeah, they dip in. They might experience something. They might check in on something, they might look something up, but they never really take it on. And I have three pillars in my business in my life that are. That I call the three es. Experience, embrace, and embody. And so they might have a little experience of something, but they're really not taking it on. They're not fully committed.
0:29:46 - (Kathy):
Maybe the fear is, you know, it's all to me, all fears boil down to fear of the unknown. Okay, what is this gonna, is this gonna change my life? What is this gonna do to my relationship? What is this gonna do to my job, my kids? Like, you know, how do I bring this in? I've already got a full plate. You know, I can't add one more thing to my plate. I don't know how to. How to change. You know, like, so it's that fear of change.
0:30:08 - (Kathy):
And fear, mostly it boils down to fear of the unknown.
0:30:11 - (Marcia):
Got it. Then we have the waiters. These are people that seem like they're partially engaged, but they're not fully immersed. So what are the challenges they face? And especially if you're a waiter that's a little bit older who may be thinking, I need to make the next step in my life. I need to change something. It's just not working. But I don't know. So what are the challenges that they face in becoming more involved? And then, because I can imagine that this partial thing can lead to some frustration. Right. Some dissatisfaction. So how do you get them to fully immerse themselves in their passions and their goals?
0:30:43 - (Kathy):
Yeah, I think the waiters, they usually are in the pool, but, you know, maybe they're not getting their upper body wet. They haven't got their head wet. They're not really. They're unsure. Maybe they. Yeah.
0:30:54 - (Marcia): Yeah.
0:30:55 - (Kathy):
I don't want. I want to look good. So I think a lot of the, the waiters, that it's about that we do worry about what other people think of us. It is a big fear that, you know, like, again, it's. And it leads to some people pleasing. We can, you know, go down that route, but we won't, you know, it's like, it's that. And it does boil down to the fear of the unknown, but there is a lot of that fear around what other people will think, and we are taught a lot of that. And again, that's not wrong or bad, but if it's stopping you from living your best life, from being the best you can be, and maybe it is that you don't know how to swim, that you're afraid you're going to go under and who's going to be there to save you. And so then let's find out how you can get a lesson to get further into the water and get a little bit. And again, you don't have to go to the deep end right away. It's like, can you just move a foot in? Can you take that little step?
0:31:48 - (Kathy):
So that's what I would say.
0:31:50 - (Marcia):
And then we have the swimmers. I think this is what I am. Right. They actively participate. They enjoy the journey, but there's sometimes there's some obstacles, right. There might be obstacles in staying motivated. There might be obstacles in terms of burnout because they're so, like, you know, doing all the laps. Right. So what are some of the issues that the swimmers might have?
0:32:09 - (Kathy):
Yeah, the swimmers, I feel, you know, and again, so it's noticing that we might need to go back as a swimmer to be a wader for a little bit or to get out of the pool and sit on the sideline for a little while. We watch the Olympics. I mean, not everyone is in the pool at the same time. Some of them are sitting on the sidelines watching their teammates. So it's really like knowing, learning those strategies and those tools that help you rest.
0:32:34 - (Kathy):
Do you need to get to the side of the pool and hold on for a little bit? Maybe tread water? It's like knowing what that is. And I think sometimes swimmers are so driven and focused on, you know, this goal setting or this attainment or this accomplishment that they don't take the time. You know, they're in the push. You got to come back to the flow. They don't take the time to play a little bit, to have some fun, to enjoy their life, to see what's the good going on here, to really stop and pause and reflect for a few minutes.
0:33:05 - (Kathy):
So that's what I would say to the swimmers, is make sure you create that space and time to reflect on your goals and your accomplishments and celebrate your wins and bring some play and fun into your life.
0:33:16 - (Marcia):
Now, I know there's nothing, there's no hierarchy. Nothing is better or worse. It's just whatever stage you are that you have, the last one you have is the divers. Right? So these are the people who are fully committed and embrace every moment. So I wasn't sure, am I a swimmer? Am I a diver? But they sometimes can also face challenge in setting new goals. Right. And then they have a quest for continuous growth, but they could possibly, you know, deal with burnout or others. What else we need to know about the divers and what.
0:33:41 - (Marcia):
What might be some challenges that they face?
0:33:45 - (Kathy):
You know, I think the divers especially, I think about, like, I love. I love watching the high divers, but any divers, like your, your goal, like, if you think about what a divers goal is, your goal is to get on that diving board and get in the pool, and then they swim and then they get out. So are you taking that time that their challenge is that similar to the swimmers, but they're also in the pool? Lessen, if you think about it. They just get in and dive, and then they get up and they're out. And so are you really? And I feel like there's a lot of leadership, people that may be swimmers, but often are divers because they dive in, but then they're out. Are you connecting with people?
0:34:21 - (Kathy):
Are you building those relationships in your life? You know, we all. We are people who need people. This is how we're designed as humans, and it's so important to have those connections and not just work connections, not just driven connections. Some play and fun. I read. I just, President Obama's wife, I did a total blank on her name. Michelle Obama's one of her books recently, and she talked about that. She called it her kitchen table, those friends that she gets to get with and have fun and tell stories and relax, and that's what you're doing in your retreat. And so making sure that you find those ways as a diver that you are, are, you know, similar to the. To the swimmer that you are reflecting a little. But I think it's, there's a lack of connection there for some of the divers.
0:35:14 - (Marcia):
So what type are you, if you. If you would think? And has it changed over time?
0:35:22 - (Kathy):
I don't think it's changed a lot over time. I can see that occasion. I'm very rarely a sundather and very rarely a toe dipper. I can be with some things, and I might be initially, but mostly I'm a swimmer and a diver, and I look at this diver piece that's been a lot of my life. Dive in and get out. It's like, okay, let me work on connections and deepening relationships. And that's what I know that I'm seeking and looking for in my life, to dive and swim in the pool a little bit more.
0:35:55 - (Kathy):
And so being kind of combined that diving and swimming piece, and that's what I think is a great place to live. And that sometimes, yes, you get out and sunbathe for a little bit, and sometimes you stand in the end of the pool and have kind conversation with people, and you're just a waiter. So again, not making any of them right, wrong, good or bad. It's like, where are you at in your life, and what is it you need in that moment?
0:36:16 - (Kathy):
And this comes back to that awareness piece, and it's really important for us to be aware of, you know, from, I call it four basic aspects of our lives. There's two others, but I'll talk about spiritually, emotionally, mentally, and physically, and those are yours to own. Where. What is your spiritual life like? And I'm, you know, not going down a religious thing. It's like. But there's a connection. What is your connection with what you believe and, you know, then mentally, like, what is your mindset like?
0:36:45 - (Kathy):
What's your inner talk to yourself? Are you a nice girl to yourself? Are you the mean girl to yourself? And then emotions. Are you allowing yourself to feel the things to really feel and process and allow those emotions to come? And then physically, how are you taking care of your body, nourishing it, moving it, you know, all those things, getting sunlight, getting sleep, all the things that we need.
0:37:05 - (Kathy):
So I think those are really important to bring awareness into your life. And, you know, you might be really great in moving your body and exercising, but maybe you eat fast food all the time, so. Or maybe you never feel a thing. So it's just finding where you're at and where can you bring a little movement to improve that area, to feel a little bit better and harmonize with yourself better?
0:37:26 - (Marcia):
One degree turn. Love it. You've also talked about being caught in the perfection trapden and obviously 40 something years working with doctors and hospitals where they really need to be perfect. And even if you're not in that field, a lot of people feel, whether it's because of social media, what their parents tell them, that they've got to be perfect, especially women. I actually don't hear this that much from men. I hear this a lot from women.
0:37:51 - (Marcia):
What is that perfection trap? And how can people, especially high achievers, overcome this mindset, the need to be perfect so they can achieve that healthier balance?
0:38:03 - (Kathy):
Yeah. There's a couple tips I can give, and I call myself a recovering perfectionist because, you know, it's not something that, that goes away immediately. I spent years perfecting the perfectionist and trying to be perfect and coming to that realization. I think the first was the awareness that there isn't anything that's perfect. Even if it looks perfect in this moment, in the next moment, it is nothing.
0:38:23 - (Kathy):
And, you know, it's like we are doing a video today and there's, I'm pretty sure some imperfect moments here and, and then embracing that, embracing that. It's okay to be imperfect. None of us were created perfect. We're not going to be perfect. There's nothing perfect. And letting it. Trying to let it go a little bit. And that's part of what I call the recovering process. And then there's this piece of, you know, the one degree change which we talked about and, and a little by little, and then there's the piece of, again, getting to know yourself. And I just did a total blank on what I wanted to say.
0:38:56 - (Marcia):
That's okay. You don't have to be perfect.
0:38:58 - (Kathy):
Okay. It'll come back to me and then I'll tell you.
0:39:02 - (Marcia):
There's another thing you talk about, which is the completion creation game. What is that?
0:39:09 - (Kathy):
It's a game that a friend gave to me. I like to call things game. So it's a. A reflection game to reflect on your life. I usually. I do it every year, and I've worked on, you know, maybe looking at it as quarterly or monthly kind of game that you play with yourself. And it's questions that you ask, and they're deep questions that ask things like, you know, what. What do I. What. What do I need to feel complete? Like, when I look at this year, 2024, I'm gonna look at things like, what were some of my accomplishments?
0:39:41 - (Kathy):
What were some things that I wanted to do that I didn't? What do I need to do? I need to say something to somebody? What was a compliment I wanted to receive that I didn't? What is the compliment that I could have given that I didn't? So it's some questions like that, that you could just do a deep dive, and it's not to go. Not a deep dive, but just what's the top of mind? What's the first thing that comes to your mind to reflect on this past, whether it's a year, quarter, 30 days, and just reflect on it.
0:40:12 - (Kathy):
And then you look at what do you. That's the completion part, so that you're complete with it. And then you talk about what you create. And I think this creation part is huge, because sometimes I think we reflect and then we don't move it to the next level, which is, what is the dream? What do we want to imagine? What do we want our life to look. To look like? I became a flourish certified instructor several years ago with a mutual friend of ours, and.
0:40:39 - (Kathy):
And that is all about reverse engineering your life, looking at your life. Okay, so in three. And you're talking about your retreat in one year, where do I want to be? And not just saying, well, I want to be sitting on the beach, like, really getting into detail and. And even owning the detail. Like, it's not going to be perfect. And there may be some stumbles along the way, and there might be an obstacle to complete this. And yet, this is where I want to go. This is where I want to see myself.
0:41:05 - (Kathy):
And so you envision it, and that's what this completion, the creation part, is, asking you questions about where you want, what you want for the next year and where you want to go. So that's the completion creation.
0:41:15 - (Marcia):
I love it. So you've written two book chapters, and we're going to put links to the books in the show notes so people can get them. But in a nutshell, what are some of the key takeaways for those who haven't yet read the book? And again, hopefully, they will buy the book because we'll put the links below.
0:41:33 - (Kathy):
Great. Thanks for the, for mentioning the book. So two books that I was best selling author in. The first one was called to speak lead and impact and co author with Marcia as well. And it's, my chapter is called creating. Yes. I have mine here as well.
0:41:49 - (Marcia):
For those of you listening on Spotify or something, you're not going to see us, but we're both holding up our copies of the book. Okay, go ahead.
0:41:56 - (Kathy):
So it's creating. It's called to create a conscious legacy. And I talk a lot about some of my experience in the NICU, my experience with my friend Rita. And really, I think the most important part is this piece about taking action in your life. What does your life look like today? I believe that we are here to constantly move forward and expand until the day we die. And it's important to. And do we sometimes get stuck in an area? Yes.
0:42:24 - (Kathy):
How long do you want to stay stuck? You know, how long do you want to stay in that spot? And what's going to move you forward? I spoke with a woman last year that really, I think, spurred some of this. And she lived in New York and she was in her mid seventies. And she said to me, I feel like I've been put on a shelf. And, you know, we had further conversation, but my gut reaction that I didn't say to her, because that wouldn't have been a nice thing to say, but was get yourself off the shelf.
0:42:51 - (Kathy):
And I know sometimes we don't know how we allow others to influence our lives to where we don't always know who we are and what we want. And so really taking those little steps to get clear who you are and bring you back to the essence of you. So really taking some action in your life, that's where I am at with my first chapter and then the second book, Impact entrepreneur. My chapter is nobody gets out of this life alive, which is a true thing that I have noticed and seen and I've had, you know, many experiences, experiences in the death and dying world with the babies, with adults, with friends, with family members, and been there holding hands with people and, you know, all of that.
0:43:31 - (Kathy):
And it's that awareness that we, what I want people to understand is you don't get out of this life alive. You have a certain amount of time on this earth. We don't know how much. You don't know how much. So how are you going to live full out? What step are you going to take today to expand your life, to move your life forward to live in a way that you've never lived before. And I see too many people as we get older kind of getting complacent, getting into that comfortable area, that safe and secure. This feels good over here, and yet it's not good to stay there forever.
0:44:07 - (Kathy):
As long as you're breathing, you can move forward. Even if it's one inch, a quarter inch, like it's taking those little, what did your friend call it again? Tnt.
0:44:16 - (Marcia):
Tiny thing.
0:44:17 - (Kathy):
Tiny, noticeable. Yeah. Things. So what are those tiny, noticeable things in your life? Those one degree changes that you can begin one today. Set an intention today. One thing. So that's, that's my message here. And really it's the, it's a theme through both chapters, is to take action and live full out in your life.
0:44:36 - (Marcia):
So now that's a fantastic advice. You're full of good advice and you're full of great questions. So I'm going to ask you a question that you tend to ask others. I want you to imagine sharing your life story with a younger version of yourself. What would you highlight as your proudest moments or moment?
0:45:01 - (Kathy):
Proudest moments, of course, you know, when you're mom, you have having children is proudest moments. Being there to support my children as they had children, I think is a very proud, momentous. And, you know, just looking at my career in general is a proud moment for me. You know, certainly there are some not proud moments within that career, as in any career, but the whole overall of my career is, you know, I feel good about who I am and what I do.
0:45:30 - (Kathy):
And really, I would say the proudest, you know, just so many proud, proud moments. But the proudest moments I have, I think, are in, in the making decisions and, and reflecting back on some of the decisions I made that were in a hard spot that, you know, like, I made this decision. And I recently wrote an article for Tennessee highlighter that they asked me about one of these moments, and one of them was when I decided to put my mom in an assisted living facility before she passed and she had dementia. And, you know, like, it was a hard decision.
0:46:07 - (Kathy):
It was gut wrenching. It was. I was sad. I thought I'd never do that. I didn't want to do that. And yet, in the long run, it was a good decision. It was the best decision for her and everyone involved. And so it's, I think it's, sometimes those proud moments are moments we got to reflect on and look back on. And did that make me feel good when I made that decision? No. But it makes me feel good now because I know she got the care that she deserved towards the end of her life.
0:46:35 - (Kathy):
And so it's being able to, I think reflection is, you know, again, and probably my other proud moment is taking this step to look at myself and being willing to change and being willing to look at myself and not be happy with how I was showing up in life and make those micro changes to be a better version of myself each and every day.
0:46:59 - (Marcia):
I love that. I'm going to ask you, you've given so much great advice today. What is the best advice you've ever received that you did not take and how did that affect you?
0:47:13 - (Kathy):
Oh, that's a good one. The best advice I've ever received that I did not take. This is a funny one, and I'm glad I didn't listen, and I don't, but, but it would have been a very different life. So, and I'm going to say to connect and marry the man that I married, that I had my children with and, you know, my parents never really liked him. I don't even know if they ever really said anything. But, you know, there was, there was a lot of red flags and a lot of signs, and yet I, you know, had the love feeling and thought it was forever and had a different mindset. You know, when we're growing up, there's things we, we can look at. And I think, you know, I say that a little bit laughingly, and yet, you know, there was a time that his name begins with the letter f. And so there was a time that I didn't say his name without a not nice word before or after.
0:48:16 - (Kathy):
And, you know, and in front of anybody who would listen, it didn't matter, my children included, which, you know, I'm not proud of. And yet, it's okay. It's the truth of where I was. I was so angry, so frustrated, so, you know, deep in stuff and couldn't see my way out. And so to get to the point where I am now, where I'm grateful, I'm grateful that I met and married him, I'm grateful for the family that I have. And so, yes, that was advice that was maybe given to me that I didn't take.
0:48:47 - (Kathy):
And it's okay, you know, it's all right. Yeah, I am grateful, you know, and I'm grateful for him. I don't have, you know, there was many years of hostility and anger towards the, towards the man, and I don't have that anymore. And I get to look at that and say, that's a joyful moment that I don't live in that. And why did I let some of the things go? Because I could still be mad at things. Believe me, I could sit here and talk about it.
0:49:10 - (Kathy):
Yet does that serve me? Is that making me feel good? You know, people think that the forgiveness thing is about forgiving the person for what they said or did I. And it's not. It's about allowing all that yuck that comes with unforgiveness to not sit in you anymore. And so when I realized that, I was like, oh, okay, let me. Let me do that because. And I would say that, you know, like, people wanting me to move forward and move on from my anger and hostility, I didn't. I had a lot of people recommend that, and I didn't do that either. And when I could do that, when I got to the place where I could, oh, it was so freeing. So those are my couple shares about that.
0:49:48 - (Marcia):
Awesome. I think that's probably what my proudest moment is. Forgiving people. Actually, what my book chapter was about in the call to speak lead and impact was about the power of forgiveness and why, you know, forgiving my son's father who tried to kill me on multiple occasions, forgiving other people. And there comes a release. But that's what I'm most proud of. But you have to be able to get there first. It's not something that happens overnight.
0:50:10 - (Marcia):
So you have, I think forgiveness is a gift, but you actually have a gift to give to the audience. What is that? And then how can people work with you? We will put, of course, links in the show notes, but for people who are listening who say, I've got to work with this woman immediately, how can they work with you?
0:50:27 - (Kathy):
Yeah. So I have a free, live, full out guide for you, which has a couple exercises that can, you can walk through experiences that you can have so you can begin to embrace and embody a new way of looking at yourself and a new way of experiencing yourself. So definitely go to my website and download that. And yes, stay in touch with me. You can get. I have a newsletter I send out every week. I love to work with people. I work with people individually and in groups.
0:50:54 - (Kathy):
I have partnership coaching and I have group coaching. I'm doing a play shop. This will probably air after my play shop, but I'm periodically doing play shops called thrive and shine. And it is about thriving and shining in this season of your life. And I'm starting an empowerment circle in September as well for women to thrive and shine in this season of your life, where we'll go little bit deeper into this goal setting thing, even though I don't really like those words, but this intention setting, how does that look and how do you create it in a simple way and actually make those steps, make those micro changes that'll get you to a different port.
0:51:30 - (Kathy):
So those are some ways that you can work with me. And yeah, I love working with women and seeing the shifts in the awareness. And the other thing I like to say about working with me is, you know, you may be looking for an answer and I don't have your answer. You have your answer. What I am is a guide by your side to help you find your answer. Because sometimes it just gets. Our answers are inside of us and they get cluttered up with stuff and we just need somebody to help us peel back some layers so we can see what our answer is.
0:52:00 - (Marcia):
I love that. So, kathy, mila, by the way, both names might not be spelled the way you might think. Kathy, k a t h ydeheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh and mila mela. And again, we'll have links to the website. I feel like you've already told us this, but if people remember nothing else from this entire episode, what's one sentence or one concept that you want them.
0:52:22 - (Kathy):
To leave with is to bring awareness to where you are and then take action. And yeah, take action in your life to live full out.
0:52:32 - (Marcia):
I love it. Well, kathy, thank you so much for being with us today. Again, this episode was sponsored by illuminating wisdom coaching consulting and corporate wellness firm, and the release reset retreat in Jamaica for women like Kathy and the people Kathy serves and women who want to play full out in their lives and figure out what that is from February 15 to February 21 in Jamaica, 2025. Thanks, Kathy. And I'm really excited for people to listen to this episode. If you got value from this episode, please share it with others, even if they're not 50 year old women, because everybody knows a 50 year old woman.
0:53:09 - (Marcia):
And if you're a woman and you're not 50, your hope is to become a 50 year old woman or over. You may not think so now in your twenties, but that is your hope. And this learning and thinking about these things, you know, am I a swimmer? Am I a waiter? Am I a toe dipper? That applies to everybody. It doesn't matter if you're a woman 50 or over. You need to start playing full out right now, today, no matter how old you are, and no matter whether you're a male, female or otherwise. So again, Kathy, thanks so much. It was great talking to you.
0:53:39 - (Kathy):
Thank you, Marcia. I enjoyed being here. Thanks so much.
0:53:42 - (Marcia):
Thanks so much for joining us. Stay tuned for the next episode. If you like what you heard, subscribe and share it with others.
