Transcript
0:00:00 - (Derrick):
One of the, I would say, fundamental stories that if you're an entrepreneur and that you're trying to figure out, okay, how do I brand myself? How do I talk about what I do? I think there's the why story that's really key to that. So if you started a business, why? Because there's definitely a story there. Whether it's an awakening that you experience in your life or you coming more fully into your identity and acting that out in the world through your business, or whether that's you recognizing a need, that you were able to bring something to the table to help fill that need in people's lives.
0:00:39 - (Marcia):
Since the time of cavemen writing on walls and biblical figures reciting parables, people have been telling stories for literally thousands of years. And most of us, we learned our lessons on right and wrong from fairy tales, which are stories. And there's a good reason for that, because stories play a vital role in how we communicate and the actions we take. A Princeton researcher, Yuri Hassan, found that a story is the only way to activate the parts in the brain so that a listener turns the story into their own ideas and experience.
0:01:09 - (Marcia):
And according to a Stanford marketing professor, Jennifer Aker, stories are remembered up to 22 times more than facts alone. So if you are a business owner, a leader, or just a regular person, you're trying to brand and market yourself or being more impactful in general, this episode is for you. Today's guest, Derek Hatch is going to help you understand why stories are so important, how to tell your story, and how you can create a narrative that helps you personally and professionally. But before I introduce him, today's episode is brought to you by Illuminating Wisdom, the premier coaching consulting and corporate wellness firm for high achievers in high stress roles. So whether you're seeking personal coaching, organizing a corporate retreat to address mental health and well being issues, you want facilitation for a business strategy session. Or you need engaging training for your team on legal and compliance matters. You can discover the solution that's right for you with Illuminating Wisdom. To sign up for our email list or learn more about how we can help you with your business, visit IlluminatingWisdom.com or click the link in the show Notes.
0:02:07 - (Marcia):
So now onto the episode. Derek, you and I are part of the same business mastermind. So I've seen some of your great work per 10 and personally and and in addition to your coaching and your workshops, you teach people how to tell their stories in five minutes and in one minute. So this is not be a challenge for you because it's what you do. But give us the one minute version of your story.
0:02:28 - (Derrick):
Sure. Well, Marcia, thank you so much for having me on this podcast. It is an honor to be here. And basically, in one minute, my story goes like this. Growing up, I loved all kinds of stories, but there was one story that I didn't really like, and that was my own. You see, I wanted my life to count for something, but when I found myself being bullied, depressed, and suicidal, I tried navigating it all alone.
0:02:54 - (Derrick):
At 16, I miraculously survived a traumatic car accident. And with a second chance, I began sharing my story with people. Not only did this make me stronger, but it also inspired the people around me to share their stories. And so I was inspired to create a space where people could tell and learned how to navigate their stories more intentionally. And I've spent the last 14 years of my career doing this because I believe that no one should feel lost in their own story, which led me to creating All Things Narrative, a company that provides coaching and education that empowers people through storytelling.
0:03:34 - (Derrick):
And so I believe you have a story worth telling and worth living. And so let All Things Narrative be your guide towards telling and living that story more meaningfully.
0:03:45 - (Marcia):
So this is so helpful, right, Because a lot of people who are listening, right, they're going to be entrepreneurs, or maybe they're pitching business. Maybe I have a lot of lawyers that listen. They've always got to go out and pitch to large corporations or other business. And we're always telling stories, but we don't know how to do it. But before we get to the how, you've talked about your why. And the why is so important.
0:04:10 - (Marcia):
You took being suicidal, being bullied, recovering from a tragic accident to change your life. At the time, you probably didn't think, this is going to make my life so much better. How did you get to the point where you realized this is actually going to help you with your purpose? Because there's some people who don't recover from those kinds of things.
0:04:29 - (Derrick):
Yeah.
0:04:30 - (Marcia):
How did you get there? And. And what would you say to somebody that says, well, I don't know, I'm still struggling to find my story?
0:04:38 - (Derrick):
Yeah, no, those are all great questions, Marcia. So, first off, I would say that when I was going through those things, I was experiencing, like, a meaning crisis of sorts, a narrative void where I just kind of was hoping that my life was going to matter, that it was going to count for something, and trying to find that in different places, trying to find it through being a musician, trying to Find it through dating girls, trying to find it by being a good student in school or whatever it was.
0:05:08 - (Derrick):
And when I got in that car accident, that began to shift the perspective for me. I experienced a narrative shift, if you will, where I started to recognize, okay, I'm here. Now what? And I think everybody has to answer that question at some point in their lives now what? And I, As I shared in my intro, I've always loved stories. And so I started turning to stories to try to help make sense of my life and to try to first kind of put myself back together, right?
0:05:45 - (Derrick):
And there were stories that I had to go back to that were, you know, important to me and foundational as a child. There were new stories that I encountered because I wasn't raised religious. And so finding, you know, know, like you mentioned the biblical narratives in your intro. So those were life changing for me and giving me direction and guidance in terms of me thinking about the kind of stories that I wanted to live out.
0:06:08 - (Derrick):
And so it starts with recognizing that you have a story that you are living out right now. And that comment that you made where, you know, people might come and say, oh, I don't really have a story, or, I don't know, my story, that is probably in. In all my years, probably the number one comment that I hear from people that really just breaks my heart, because I know what that feels like to feel like you don't really have a story. But the reality is that every single one of us does have a story.
0:06:38 - (Derrick):
And what I believe that I had to do first for myself is I had to figure out, okay, well, what story am I living out and what story do I want to live out? And then once I started to gain that clarity, I started surrounding myself with stories that could help me think through that, that helped me reflect. Then I began sharing bits of my story more and more and more with other people, just little bits at a time, until I started to.
0:07:07 - (Derrick):
You know, it's. It's honestly just a process, a continual, ongoing process of kind of putting your narrative together. And it's a lot of trial and error. But I think that's the beauty of life is that as we get better at telling our story, we start to look at the story we're telling and go, okay, well, what's the story that I'm living? And am I living out the kind of story that I want to.
0:07:34 - (Marcia):
I love that. So when somebody comes to you and they say, all right, now you've convinced me, I have a story, what story do I tell? And Right. I imagine people have lots of stories, you know, they're full stories. Right. But there's, there's a method to the madness. There's a method to how you tell the story. And we'll talk a little bit about that. But how does somebody figure out what story they have to tell?
0:07:56 - (Marcia):
Because you can have some people who live just a ridiculous, extraordinary life and every day is going to be a book. And some people might be like, I take the kids to school, I go to pta, then I go to soccer practice. Who cares about my story?
0:08:10 - (Derrick):
Yeah, yeah. When you get over that hump of realizing, okay, I do have a story now, what comes next? I think a lot of people that I find, including myself when I started this process many years ago was like, if you take a box, like a box of puzzle pieces and you dump the pieces on the table and you just all of a sudden see all these pieces laying out, and it could be maybe a little overwhelming, right. If you've ever experienced that, of just, okay, I've got a thousand piece puzzle now what do I do?
0:08:44 - (Derrick):
Okay, well, I start looking at, you know, at least my strategies. I start looking at the, the, the edge pieces, right? Like what kind of forming the frame. And I think when you're learning to tell your story, it's very similar to that. You, you come out and you have all these different stories. Because the truth is, is that there's hundreds and thousands of stories that we've lived out in our lives and that we will live out.
0:09:05 - (Derrick):
And so how do we know which one of those to tell? And that's the beauty of the journey I go on with a lot of these clients is figuring out based on their situation, based on their needs, why they're telling these stories, who their audience is. All of those things are a factor in terms of pulling out what sort of stories you want to tell. But what I believe every single person needs to do when they want to become a better storyteller is kind of like with that puzzle where you kind of start to look at the box and you start to go, okay, let me find all the edge pieces and form kind of like that frame. I think in the same way, you need to have some sort of overarching frame of what your story is.
0:09:46 - (Derrick):
And when you alluded earlier to the 5 minute and the 1 minute versions. Right. I think it just starts with getting your story out there, like just writing or speaking. I have a lot of people, including myself, that love to, you know, pull out the phone and you kind of talk to text and a great way to just start telling stories. And so that's always what I recommend with starting people, is just start getting the stories out. And then over time, what we do is we kind of start to look at patterns and themes, and then we start to figure out, okay, let's get the frame first of the overarching story that you want to communicate with your life. And then from there, we have different sections and different pieces that we're going to go into more detail on different corners, if you will, and being able to, through that, start to gain clarity about the story that we're telling and why we're telling it.
0:10:39 - (Marcia):
Fantastic. So let's go through some scenarios and think about, for the person listening, how might they use this and how might they kind of get started? So let's say a person is an entrepreneur or freelancer and they're trying to build their personal brand, or maybe anybody trying to build their personal brand. I think everybody thinks they want to be an influencer. And by the way, everybody is an influencer in some way for good or for ill.
0:11:01 - (Marcia):
And even the concept of branding. Right. We have a brand, whether or not we think we do, there's always a brand. So people are like, I'm not branding myself. Who do you think I am? You know, you're always branding yourself. Right. So let's think about how can people be more intentional with building their personal brand through stories, Whether they are, for example, a lawyer on LinkedIn that's trying to kind of do, you know, just. Just be more thought of as a thought leader.
0:11:25 - (Derrick):
Yeah.
0:11:26 - (Marcia):
Or maybe they're a person who's starting their. Their business, or they have a business and they want to be able to use storytelling that way.
0:11:33 - (Derrick):
Yeah. Oh, that's a great question there. So I'm sure you've heard, and you kind of alluded to this in your intro, the statement that facts tell, but stories sell. Right. And you. You mentioned that. I think you said 22. That stories were, remember, 22 times more. Right.
0:11:49 - (Marcia):
Y.
0:11:50 - (Derrick):
And so one of the. One of the. I would say, fundamental stories that if you're an entrepreneur and that you're trying to figure out, okay, how do I brand myself? How do I talk about what I do? I think there's the why story that's really key to that. So if you started a business why? Because there's definitely a story there, whether it's an awakening that you experience in your life or you coming more fully into your identity and enacting that out in the world through your Business or whether that's you recognizing a need, that you were able to bring something to the table to help fit, fill that need in people's lives.
0:12:32 - (Derrick):
I would say that getting that why story is so important because that really communicates your heartbeat. It communicates okay for the audience, listener that's there. Why am I going to do business with you? In other words, your why is going to be to answer the why, if you will, of why somebody would want to be your client or to take your business or try your product, whatever it is. And so being intentional about communicating that why, I mean networking is a great avenue for that. If you're like in a networking setting and you only get one minute to get up and speak, you know, one of those times that you're there in the first, at least, you know, three times, your first three times there, one of those times I really think needs to be your why.
0:13:26 - (Derrick):
So I would say your why story is one one and then another one that I think you really should have is a great house story. So it's not just about us. Donald Miller talks about this a lot. You are not the hero of the story that is your customer. I know it can be hard sometimes to take that in, but so your why story is really what, what where you bring your personal touch of who you are and how you're connected to this.
0:13:56 - (Derrick):
But we wanna really present, as Donald Miller says, the customer as the hero as well. And so being able to have, I recommend having multiple ones of these, but you need at least one, one really powerful client testimonial that really speaks to how your business and what you do is impacting people and being able to have that story that you can pull out to explain, you know, you really want to, it's an art form to really keep the focus of the narrative on them, on the, on the client, on that person who experienced the change.
0:14:34 - (Derrick):
But as you're explaining it, you want to weave in as well, like how what you are offering, what you are doing, how it matters. So I think the way that we position that through that client testimonial house story I think is also really key. So those are two that for sure you definitely gotta have if you're an entrepreneur.
0:14:56 - (Marcia):
So let's use an example of that. Can you tell us a story of someone that you trend that transformed through working with you? And then the follow up question is how long should these stories be? Right? So you're there to pitch the person or pitch the business, or you're trying to brand yourself as an entrepreneur. Whether you're a lawyer pitching for clients or a videographer, whatever it is, you tell your why. This is my why.
0:15:21 - (Marcia):
And let me tell you the story of Mary Jane, who did X. Like, how long is that client testimonial story? And maybe you could do it by telling us one so we can kind of see how it works in action.
0:15:30 - (Derrick):
Yeah, I think it all depends on your situation and your context, which is why I recommend having multiple versions of your story. If you're at a speak, if you get to speak on the stage and you get, you know, 10 minutes, you know, and you can spend five minutes talking about your why story, that's fantastic there. I do think the. A lot of situations that you're in, whether it's networking or elevator pitches or just being out in the community, you need to have shorter versions of that. So I'll give you an example of kind of a client testimonial, one, one that I give there. And basically a technique of really how I. How I frame this. This is approximately about one minute as well. It might be a few seconds over, but.
0:16:19 - (Derrick):
So do you know someone who struggles with memory challenges? You see, I lost two grandmas to Alzheimer's, and I wish I had more time to ask about their stories before they lost their memories. There's a great quote that says all of us have a story to tell, how important it is to stop and reflect on our story, for we never quite know how or when it will end. And you see, that's why I created all things narrative, because I believe everyone has a story living inside of them.
0:16:49 - (Derrick):
And I don't want anyone's story to get lost or anyone to feel lost in their own story. In one of my workshops, an attendee named Michael told me two things right off the bat. Number one, I don't have a story to tell. And number two, I struggle with a memory loss condition. But we began working together, uncovering his story, and through coaching and reflection, he gained a sense of narrative based on what he was able to recall.
0:17:15 - (Derrick):
And now he no longer feels lost in the story. In fact, he loves telling his story through public speaking and writing, even penning his story in what has now become an Amazon best selling book. When I think of Michael, I think of my two grandmas. And I'm grateful that this story, that his story is being told despite his memory challenges. And I believe that there's many people out there that likewise have a story waiting to be told. And if that's you, then let's connect.
0:17:46 - (Marcia):
Awesome, right? And that's what people can do. So when people. So let's break that down and chunk it down in a few steps. Yeah, of course, we clearly want people to go to your workshops and hire you, but don't give us everything.
0:17:57 - (Derrick):
Sure.
0:17:57 - (Marcia):
But if somebody's sitting there saying, all right, I've got to pull over right now, because I'm going to do this. And actually, I remember when you told this story on our Mastermind. I was driving, I was like, I need to pull over and write something down.
0:18:09 - (Derrick):
Oh, cool. Yeah.
0:18:10 - (Marcia):
So, because I'm like this, because this is like, you get the light bulb moment. So for somebody who's thinking, like, what are some of the steps that they can do to kind of put that together? So you talked earlier about figuring out, you know, you've got a bunch of stories, you have figuring out that testimonial, but what's the structure there that you use? Because I think that's what will help people.
0:18:30 - (Marcia):
You know, kind of. What kind of framework are you thinking of there?
0:18:33 - (Derrick):
Yeah. So there's actually different structures that I use then that I teach clients as well. And one of the first things that I always tell people when they start a workshop or working with me is I believe that every one of us has the capacity to be a storyteller, because we do it all the time. Somebody asks, oh, how was your weekend? You could either sit there and say, good, or you could say, oh, man, I did this. And then I went here and we did that.
0:19:00 - (Derrick):
So storytelling is such a fundamental part of our DNA as humans. And so I believe that people have different styles and different structures that they naturally kind of gravitate towards, whether it's, you know, the way they're influenced, because that's a whole other conversation, is that the stories you surround yourself with influence you. And so if you, you know, love superhero stories, you're around what's called the hero's journey structure all the time.
0:19:31 - (Derrick):
And so there's most likely that if you love superhero stories and you watch and read a lot of them, chances are if I asked you to tell me a story about you, you might tell it through that pattern, through that paradigm there of the hero's journey. And so there's structures that I think come naturally to us, and there's ones at the same time that we. We kind of have to learn and craft. So I. In that pattern that you just heard with the testimonial, I use a structure called the nested loop.
0:20:00 - (Derrick):
And this is one. One that I teach as well. And a lot of People are really good at these, and a lot of people can be really good at them if they take the time to craft it. So I don't recommend. I'll tell you what I don't recommend is trying to look up these structures and trying to fit your story to a structure. I've seen clients do that, and I kind of have to steer them away from that. What I always recommend is first get the raw form of the story out again, write it out, speak it out, however you want to get it out, but get it out in some way.
0:20:33 - (Derrick):
And then once you have it on paper, then we can start to look at it and go, okay, what's here? What's missing? What. What does this kind of fall under? And then you just kind of play around with it. Like, you take your. Your, you know, like if you're typing it. And let's say one of the things I recommend is, like, you highlight your theme statement. So every story should have some sort of clear theme to it, and a theme statement can really help make that clear to your audience, especially when you're first starting out.
0:21:06 - (Derrick):
So certain structures, you put the theme statement in the beginning, and that's how you start. And some of them you put in the middle, and some of them, you. You have that be your finale, and that what you leave the right. So you just kind of play around, depending on your audience, depending on your time, depending on which of these structures, because different structures have different purposes.
0:21:29 - (Derrick):
So, like, the Hero's Journey is excellent for trying to. Trying to explain your why story. A lot of people, I recommend using that structure for that and give us.
0:21:40 - (Marcia):
A little bit of idea, because I think people have heard of the Hero's Journey, but they may not know what it means. So again, without giving everything away for free, but given some value during the.
0:21:48 - (Derrick):
Podcast, I'll give you everything you can look up on Google. So the hero. So the Hero's Journey was coined by Joseph Campbell. He wrote an. I'll back up. Actually, Joseph Campbell studied myths, he studied storytelling all throughout time and cultures. And he came to the conclusion that there are these different patterns of stories that we tell. And his work is building very much on Carl Jung. And that these patterns that we tell in stories are manifestations of our own psychology.
0:22:17 - (Derrick):
And so our fictional stories are actually embedding within them parts of real life and our stories. And so the hero's journey is. Or in that book, the Hero with a Thousand faces, he outlines 17 of these patterns. And then as his career develops and others pick up on that Like a snowball, it develops into what we now know of as the hero's journey. And the funny thing is that we've been telling these kind of stories in Greek myths and, you know, religious narratives and all these different places. But now in the 20th and 21st centuries, we're a lot more intentional about, oh, okay, I'm going to tell a hero's journey kind of story.
0:23:00 - (Derrick):
And so that's the interesting thing about the time that we're in, is that we are a lot more conscientious and aware of the power of storytelling and how we are crafting stories. So it's a beautiful time with so many, so many wonderful gifts out there in the world of how to tell your story. But, yeah, the hero's journey is basically, you start off in the known and the familiar. You take a journey into the unknown, the unfamiliar. You experience some sort of transformation while you're there, Then you circle back to the known and the familiar. But you are a different person than when you started.
0:23:35 - (Derrick):
And now, in light of what you learned, you now impart that to somebody, to the community, and your transformation leads to the transformation of others and sets them on their journey.
0:23:48 - (Marcia):
Awesome. You talked about your client, who is out there being a public speaker and Amazon bestseller. As, you know, a lot of people like, all right, I've got a story to tell, but I'm really not trying to be out in public.
0:24:00 - (Derrick):
Sure.
0:24:01 - (Marcia):
Even though that story could change a life for somebody else. And you and I both know Wendy Bloom Weiss. We're both in the same mastermind with her. She. Her podcast aired before yours and she talks about everybody's got a story. And if you've got a story, actually, you kind of have a duty to share that because your story can, like you said, save a life, change a life, get somebody in a completely different direction.
0:24:24 - (Marcia):
What do you say to the people that, like, I'm really afraid to speak in public? What are some tips you have on that?
0:24:32 - (Derrick):
Yeah, that's a. That's a great question. I'll kind of answer it two different ways. So first off, I think that finding, like, finding a safe space to really practice this, if you will. So, like, if you're a part of, like a small group or a community group or something like Toastmasters or something that's very tight knit and close, and you're fostering those relationships of trust over time. Those are great avenues to begin to dip your toe in the water of public speaking because it is daunting.
0:25:11 - (Derrick):
There is a lot to it. And I really Recommend it could be even just the people in your own home. You know, maybe you sit down your spouse, and if you, maybe you have kids and sit them down the living room and you say, all right, I'm gonna. I've been working on something. I want to just try to get up and share it. Find people that you trust and, you know, maybe invite someone out to Starbucks and just casually, like, begin to share things that you would talk about, like start in small steps.
0:25:41 - (Derrick):
So one of the things I provide for those who are in South Florida is I provide an avenue for you when you're ready to take the next step. Like when you're ready to get onto a stage in front of people that some you might know, some you don't. That kind of next step avenue. Because I provide an open mic for storytelling every quarter. So that is. I've seen that be remarkable for people going from that intimate step to, okay, I, I'm, I'm. I'm getting better, but I'm not fully ready to go out there and conquer the world.
0:26:14 - (Derrick):
So I need, like, that next step. So there's definitely things like that out there. Open mics, I think, are, Are fantastic for that. Ones that are not competitive, driven, that are ones that are just about honoring the space and honoring, you know, each person up there. The other thing I'll mention with this as well, to kind of address the deeper issue at the heart of that, because Wendy's, you know, absolutely right. If you have a story, you have an obligation to share that story, because you never know who is going to be impacted by it. And I'm going to speak out of my. My Christian background and tradition for a moment here.
0:26:48 - (Derrick):
One of my favorite stories in the biblical narrative is of Jesus and his disciples. They go to the other side of the lake, and there's a man that comes rushing down the hill. And he's known, you know, as the demoniac man, because he has some sort of demon. You know, he's. He's hurting himself. The village has cast him out. They have basically deemed his story worthless. And he comes to Jesus and he's, you know, it's not even him speaking. It's that demon. It's the trauma that's speaking on his behalf.
0:27:22 - (Derrick):
And Jesus is able to heal him of that. And it's a beautiful story. I'm not going to get into all the details of it, but I think the most remarkable part of it at all is near the end when Jesus and his disciples are getting ready to go back. They're getting to on the boat. And the man who is now in his right mind, and he's so in his right mind that the people who cast him out, they're afraid and they. They want to send Jesus away for that. And so the man kind of doesn't know what to do, doesn't know where to go. He's just had all this trauma and all this experience that he's had to deal with.
0:28:04 - (Derrick):
And he goes up to Jesus and he asks to go with him. And you would think that, you know, kind Jesus would say, yeah, come on the boat, buddy. I got a place for you. But he says no. And he instead tells him, go back to your village and tell your story and tell him of what the Lord has done for you. And so this man didn't need to go and get a degree. He didn't need to go, like, get an education. He didn't need to.
0:28:44 - (Derrick):
He. It's weird because he didn't even need to spend time, like, he didn't need to go with them. Jesus is saying, you have what you need to go tell your story. You have the experience in you. And the cool thing that a lot of people don't mention with that story is there's actually a coda to it where two chapters later, in the Gospel of Mark, Jesus returns to that village. And instead of the people casting him away like they did before they come to G, they actually flock and they swarm him and they bring another man who's in need of healing.
0:29:18 - (Derrick):
So the implication is that the man went and told his story and it actually transformed that village, and now other lives are getting transformed there. So I love that story. Just as a catalyst for thinking about, okay, I do have what I need. I do have this story. And if I can just get out there and start sharing it, even if it's raw, even if I don't completely have it all figured out, I can. My story can be a catalyst for somebody else's story to change.
0:29:50 - (Marcia):
That's. That's so compelling. And I. And I hope that people, whether or not you're religious, whether or not you believe in, you know, what's in the Bible, it is itself a story about telling your story. And more importantly, people are going to remember that. I guarantee you somebody's gonna be like, let me go back and look that up in the Bible. I don't remember that, you know, because. But they'll remember it, and it's going to be something like you said, the catalyst. Now, right?
0:30:14 - (Marcia):
Let's think about leaders, right? Listening to the podcast, it might be leaders, there might be bosses. And by the way, I think everybody can be a leader, regardless of your title. But let's say you actually have a team of people, and somebody might be saying, how can I use storytelling with my team? A few ways to think about, right. Number one, it could be to help create a more inclusive and supportive culture at work.
0:30:36 - (Marcia):
It could be a way. I'm actually flying to D.C. next week to do a facilitator or retreat of a legal department. And one of the things I'm talking about is the importance of leadership and telling your story and being vulnerable, because people. If people see that the leader is vulnerable, they can themselves feel comfortable enough to share things, and it builds rapport. But you're gonna have some people saying, I don't know if that's a good idea.
0:31:06 - (Marcia):
That may be a little bit dangerous. Do I really want to do that? So how do you talk to leaders who might say, I think I might want to do this, but I'm a little worried I might be getting too personal or I might make people feel uncomfortable. Is there something special that leaders of teams need to think about?
0:31:25 - (Derrick):
Yeah, absolutely. Great question. The telling and receiving of stories, I believe, is a sacred act. So there is something about when you tell your story, you are bearing a part of yourself to those around you. And we have this. Narratives, you know, so to speak, that in the workplace, in, you know, corporate businesses or whatever the environment it is, we don't do that. We don't. We don't need to do that. We just need to buckle down and just get the work done, and we don't have time for all this.
0:32:02 - (Derrick):
So one of the statistics that really has stuck with me over the years, I think this was the Harvard Review that did this statistic here that says that 71% of executives at businesses say that. And leaders, for this sake of this conversation, they say that employee engagement is critical. Critical to the success of their company. But according to a study that was done by Gallup, only 15% of people feel fully engaged and connected with their company.
0:32:39 - (Derrick):
So 71% up here are saying that this is really, really important. And only 15% of people are actually feeling that. So how do we bridge that gap? So being able to foster a place within the workplace where people can use storytelling and use these different principles that we're talking about here in order to. To navigate the. And. And almost like, if you will, like, provide language. So, like, a lot of organizations love, like, strengths, finder and enneagram and disc and all these different Things. Right.
0:33:21 - (Derrick):
So I do something a little different with those I work with. I use what are called archetypes.
0:33:26 - (Marcia):
I wanted to ask you about that. Let's talk about the archetypes.
0:33:29 - (Derrick):
Yeah, because I think the archetypes actually really help do this, but in a way that might not seem threatening, at least if it's done right. I definitely think, like, anything, it can be butchered and not handled well. But archetypes are essentially, again, this comes from young as well. But archetypes are almost like character roles that you define yourself by based on, okay, like, if this is my role in the organization, how do I.
0:34:04 - (Derrick):
How do I do what I do meaningfully, if you will, what's the story that I'm telling myself that's keeping me going, doing this work, even when it's, you know, tough, even when we're not meeting our goals, like, what keeps me going here? So archetypes are really key to that. And so what I do when I work with organizations is I basically walk them through all. I mean, there's lots of theories about how many archetypes there are. I use 12.
0:34:34 - (Derrick):
There tend to be 12 overarching ones. So I walk them through the 12 archetypes there. You know, whether it's like a executive team, staff of, you know, directors, leaders, and we're all in a room together and walking them through these archetypes and helping them, you know, to see like, oh, yeah, that kind of sounds like me. And oh my gosh, that is not me up there. And some archetypes people get a little offended by. And some archetypes people feel really comfortable with. And we kind of lean into that a little bit. Like, why is that?
0:35:09 - (Derrick):
And so I have people kind of play musical chairs where they move around as I'm explaining the archetypes. And I have them out on each table, and I'm kind of move around as they try to figure out, like, okay, in this organization, what's my archetypal role here? And then this is where I think it really gets good. It's not just them discovering their archetypes, but then it's how do we leverage them, how do we use them within the day to day of the organization here.
0:35:39 - (Derrick):
And so there's a principle that we use in narrative practice called externalizing conversations, which is basically where we don't see people as the problems. We see problems situated in a context. And so when. When we're having a situation with somebody on our team, it could be very tempting to just go, oh, man, Billy's the Problem, we got to let Billy go. Right. And we're not really pressing into what the problem is, because we just need to get rid of Billy for whatever reason.
0:36:11 - (Derrick):
And I'm not saying there's not times where you need to let people go, but let's look at the problem, because if we. We're not dealing with the problem, it's just going to repeat when, you know, like, George gets hired. So with combining archetypes and externalizing conversations, we can instead look at, okay, what archetype Bill is, does Billy really operate out of, like, based on his role here? So let. Let's say that Billy is an explorer. Let's say that he's a seeker. Archetype. And explorers and seekers, they really love to.
0:36:52 - (Derrick):
They kind of like to do their own thing. They kind of like to be left alone. It could be a little harder sometimes for them to be team players. And so, you know, maybe we need to. We need to go, okay, so there's a healthy expression of that archetype where we are able to collaborate with the team as needed, but at the same time honor, like, how Billy does his work and how he. If he's giving us the results he. We want. Right, right.
0:37:23 - (Derrick):
So we can be able to use this language of archetypes to go, okay, like, it's not that Billy is the problem. It's that Billy is operating out of, you know, a certain set of identity. And what is. How does that rub against me? Because maybe I'm one of the archetypes. That's more like, of a. Like, like, like we're all a team, you know, like, why doesn't Billy, like, ever show up to, like, you know, like, the team events and outings and stuff like that? Like, does he really care about this place? Like, all these kind of things I've heard in workplaces before, these, these conflicts here. And so being able to provide language with archetypes and being able to look at how do we all. We are all on a journey towards better expressing the stories that we're telling.
0:38:16 - (Derrick):
And archetypes provide a lot of great language in how we are navigating towards that and how we're moving together because we. We can't do it alone. A healthy team and organization is recognizing the value of what each of these different archetypes. Because on an organizational level, every archetype has a role in how they sustain the organization. And so being able to look at the problems that come up as, like, okay, this is a problem that exists within this archetype or a Clashing of these archetypes. So how do we navigate it? So it provides language that puts us all on the same playing field, and it utilizes story and that world and that language in order to move forward, to get our stories more aligned together.
0:39:08 - (Marcia):
So, speaking of the workplace, one of the biggest problems people tend to have well at home as well, is that listening is a problem. So we've been talking about telling your story, but how do we train ourselves to become better listeners?
0:39:22 - (Derrick):
Yeah. So in narrative practice, we use something called witnessing. And I found this tool to be incredibly successful, because when we listen, we tend to actually be thinking about what we're gonna say next. And I think we're all guilty of that. And so witnessing is a framework that kind of prevents you from doing that. It teaches you to slow down and to be active in what you are listening for when we want to connect with someone, because it's a powerful, powerful way to connect with someone. And so do you want me to, like, kind of give an example of the.
0:40:08 - (Derrick): Of it? Okay, so there's. There's four steps in this framework of witnessing. So the first one is what's called the expression. And so the expression is basically what stood out to you about what the person shared. So you're not reinterpreting it. You're not giving your own spin to it. You're not putting it in your own language. You are trying to capture the words and language of the person that you're listening to.
0:40:36 - (Derrick):
And that can actually be quite more difficult than you think it is to not think in your terms, but to put yourself in their shoes and utilize and adopt their language. So can you. That's the first step of witnessing is can you repeat back what somebody shared in their language, not in your analysis or interpretation or your own words? So that's, like, the first piece of it there. Right.
0:41:01 - (Marcia):
I think that sound sounds like marriage counseling. Right. But that's good. Yeah.
0:41:04 - (Derrick):
Oh, well. So. So fun fact. So what I'm describing here, a lot of things I'm describing, describing, they all originate in therapy. So archetypes originate in therapy. Witnessing originated in therapy. A lot of the stuff that we have, because we've learned over the years that in therapeutic context, we've learned how important it is for people to tell and listen to the stories of, you know, us and. And one another.
0:41:32 - (Derrick):
And so a lot of things that we know about narrative today, they really are situated in a therapeutic context. So I've definitely had that. Where I've actually done this framework with organizations that they go like, this kind of feels a little bit like therapy. And I did it with a room full of therapists one time and they were just like, oh, yeah, this feels familiar. So that was funny.
0:41:58 - (Marcia):
But anyways, so we've got step one.
0:42:00 - (Derrick):
Yeah. So the second step is what image comes to mind about the person. So in other words, as you heard them sharing, what do you see about that person that maybe you didn't before or maybe did you gain a sense of clarity about them? So I might be listening to you telling a part of your story, and you might be telling me about a really life changing experience where you really had to go through a lot.
0:42:32 - (Derrick):
And I might sit there and go, wow, you know, I've worked alongside Marcia for quite a while and, you know, I knew that she was diligent, but I have such a greater sense of just her resilience for everything that she's been through. And it really makes sense how she can handle these challenges so well. So that's the second step there is recognizing. Okay, like, how am I better understanding the person through what they're listening. And again, notice how we were two stages in and we haven't even gotten to me yet.
0:43:05 - (Derrick):
We're completely on the person and honoring them now. The third one is when we start to build a little bit more of a bridge, and that's sharing resonance. What personally resonates with you. And so I might go, wow. When Marcia shared that story about how she experienced all this financial loss and how she slowly was building it back bit by bit. Wow. Like that. I relate to that so much. And now there's a bridge that's being formed between us because now I'm opening up and sharing a piece of my story and how it connects with you.
0:43:42 - (Derrick):
And then the last step of that is the transport, which is what am I going to take with me in light of this conversation? So it could be, you know, okay, I need to implement this step, or I need to go reconnect with this kind of person or whatever it is, being able to have an intentional action step, a wisdom piece, something that you're taking away from the conversation so that it just doesn't kind of go like that. Because I think that can happen a lot, unfortunately.
0:44:10 - (Derrick):
But really being intentional about, okay, I've heard, I've listened to you, and now what am I going to do with that?
0:44:21 - (Marcia):
Got it. So we've got the four different steps. So I want to turn now to. You have your own podcast called Live a Meaningful Story.
0:44:31 - (Derrick):
Yeah.
0:44:31 - (Marcia):
And you dive into how stories and Films help make sense, make us make sense of life.
0:44:36 - (Derrick):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
0:44:37 - (Marcia):
So is there. And I've listened to a few episodes as well.
0:44:40 - (Derrick):
Oh, cool.
0:44:41 - (Marcia):
I can watch the Trail, you know, so. And I was listening to, you know, when you're talking about different movies, etc. Like, do I need to go back and watch the Transformers? I didn't think it was that deep. Apparently it is, right?
0:44:51 - (Derrick):
Well, it is what it is for that. That person. You know, there's four of us that do the show, and we take turns choosing all those films. And film is. Is the. Is the most. What's the word I'm looking for? It's like a macro language of storytelling that we have because all of us, we can go into a place, we could sit down in our living room and go to a movie theater, and we can all experience a story together in just a couple hours.
0:45:21 - (Derrick):
And that's incredible there, like, being able to have that ability to do that, you know, plays, like, going to the theater. That's another example of that. So. Yeah.
0:45:31 - (Marcia):
Anyways, so what's yours? The film, if you. I mean, I'm sure there's a million.
0:45:35 - (Derrick):
Yeah.
0:45:35 - (Marcia):
And I always ask people, you know, so this shouldn't be as hard for you, because I often ask people, what's a film, a story, a song, a poem that changed your life? So what is that film or that story that. That really changed your perspective?
0:45:50 - (Derrick):
There's so many, as you shared, but I'll. I'll share actually a recent one that's been really doing a lot in me. So when you were listening to the podcast, did you listen to the episode we did on Pinocchio?
0:46:04 - (Marcia):
I did not.
0:46:05 - (Derrick):
Okay. So that one just came out about a month ago from the time that we recorded this. And so that's a story that I grew up with, and it's a story that, you know, like the Disney version that was really important in my childhood because Pinocchio is very archetypal story about growing up, coming of age, finding your place in the world. And so you have the different temptations and trials that Pinocchio undergoes, and they all represent different aspects of growing up.
0:46:38 - (Derrick):
So it's beautiful that I had that, you know, at that age now in 2024. I've been a father for the last seven years. And so when I watch a story like Pinocchio, I'm actually putting myself in Geppetto's place a lot and trying to imagine that. And a couple years ago, Guillermo del Toro came out with his version of Pinocchio. Which is on Netflix. And his version of it is more from the perspective of Geppetto, and as he says in his words, hit the journey of becoming a father and an imperfect father learning to embrace their imperfect child.
0:47:23 - (Derrick):
And so when I watched that film a couple years ago, it. For the first time, it absolutely wrecked me. And it wrecks me every time I see it, because there's. I'm just gonna lightly spoil it here, just a little bit of it. But there's a moment early on where Geppetto has a son and he loses that son. And so he. Pinocchio, is born out of this grief of losing a son. And he. And the sun represents, like, the idealized child, like all of your hopes and ambitions and dreams for your child.
0:48:02 - (Derrick):
And Pinocchio, obviously is imperfect, especially if you read the. The actual book. He's not like the dizzy version. He's kind of a hot mess. So in that film, Geppetto has to be. Has to learn to let go of some of those expectations that he's holding his son to. And at the same time, Pinocchio has to take a healthy dose of what Geppetto's instilling and what he's learning from others. And basically, he has to, through.
0:48:34 - (Derrick):
Find his way in the world through a very wayward path. And I think sometimes as parents, you know, we want to try to protect our. Our kids from all these things and all these different experiences. And you hope that everything you say is just going to go. They're going to take it, and they're going to go out in the world and thrive. But the reality is that life is a lot messier. And I think this film is really helping me as a father kind of navigate the. The. The story that I'm living out with my three children, and especially as my oldest one, you know, is well into school age now, and she's dealing with different things that come out and me recognizing what my role is as her father.
0:49:23 - (Derrick):
And so the story, that film really provides a lot of language, a lot of powerful images, a lot of, you know, very symbolic, archetypal storytelling that's helping me to really just think through, like, okay, what. What. Am I holding my child to a standard that's unattainable for them? Am I playing the comparison trap? You know, all these different. Different things that we experience? So that's a. That's a film. That's a story. That's an example of a story that's been very important to me all throughout my life. And how different versions of the same Story are, speak to me at different times in my life.
0:50:06 - (Marcia):
I love that. And, and people should go back and watch. And also, you said something important, right? A lot of the fairy tales that I talked about in the top of the hour, right, they're the ones we see on the Disney versions are a lot grimmer than some of the actual, A lot more, less grim, a lot more, A lot tamer, child friendly than some of the original fairy tales that they're taken from.
0:50:26 - (Derrick):
So, yeah, 100%.
0:50:28 - (Marcia):
You know, Hans Christian Andersen, Grimm's fairy tale. A lot of these are pretty dark.
0:50:33 - (Derrick):
Well, well, I read my kids when we do fairy tales. I read them the actual ones from Grim and I've had a couple people be like, why are you doing that? And I mean, I, I truly believe that we have to ease our children into the harshness of life. And those fairy tales are, they're great gateways to having those conversations and being proactive as a parent rather than reactive. When your child comes home and says, oh my gosh, like, Billy said this at school, dad, like, and you're like, oh, great, now I got to talk to them about drugs now. Or I got to talk to them about this. That. Right? Fairy tales are an excellent, like the, the, the Grims and those non watered down ones.
0:51:19 - (Derrick):
I mean, obviously use with discretion with your kid, but my, my kids, I think they handle it pretty well and they provide great conversations.
0:51:26 - (Marcia):
So I love that. And what's the biggest mistake that people make when trying to tell their story?
0:51:34 - (Derrick):
The biggest mistake? There's a lot I can think of, but I think one that I'll give.
0:51:41 - (Marcia):
Or maybe you can give three if you want to. If you don't want to. If you don't want to narrow it down to one.
0:51:45 - (Derrick):
Yeah, I would say the first one that that comes to mind is that a lot of people are afraid to let the story and the power of the story speak for itself. And what I mean by that is they'll tell the story, but they won't really think that's enough. And so they'll feel like they have to add a lot of things to it. They'll feel like they, they need to almost lecture or sermonize, if you will, like different things about the story to the audience.
0:52:21 - (Derrick):
And there's a very careful balance because we know when we're listening to a story, you especially will notice this when you're watching a movie and we're losing the plot and we're now just kind of lecturing the audience and sermonizing the audience and I mean, there's a place for that. There's context for that. But in terms of telling your story, that. That's definitely one that I see a lot, is trying not to fall into that trap, letting the story and the power of the story speak for itself and not feeling like you have to fill in all the gaps. And I'll do one more as well. That kind of goes off. That is a lot of times, especially, like, I love when people speak from the heart, but I think there's a lot of people that they get up there and they try to wing it, and there's a lot of unnecessary pieces that they just feel like, just have to be there. And I'm guilty of this, too.
0:53:20 - (Derrick):
Like, I'll be like, oh, my gosh, this part of the story is so funny, we have to keep it. But in reality, it has nothing to do with everything else you just said. And it actually. What it does is it pulls the audience away from the central narrative, and it gets them thinking about something else. It takes them down a trailer. And sometimes it could be hard to bring them back because they might be so stuck on that one joke that you shared that was so dang funny, and now they're thinking about it. Or another example of that is when people will, like, give their kind of opinion on something that doesn't really have to do with the story, but it might come out of, like, one little point, and they'd say, like, I only.
0:54:02 - (Derrick):
I've had people say things like this before where they might say something like, well, and that's why we need to, you know, get out there and vote for such and such. And then they. And I'm just like. That completely deters away from the story when you try to drop those things or you try to add these little things they. They take away. So you have to. There is an art and a finesse to being able to purge your story of things that might not need to be there, even though you think they need to be there. We all think that everything that we are going to put is awesome and good.
0:54:36 - (Derrick):
But put yourself in the shoes of your audience and think, is this bringing them closer? Like, Robert McKee talks about this, and this is, like, part of my coaching as well, is that every single thing that you share in your story needs to turn the story towards the next thing you're about to say. And if there's ever anything at all that isn't that bridge between what you just said and what you're about to say, it needs to go. You need to cut it, you can always put it somewhere else. You could save it for a lecture or a sermon, but it doesn't have to be here for this story.
0:55:13 - (Marcia):
I love it. So speaking of your coaching, you, number one, have a special offer for our listeners. And number two, I really want as many people as possible to kind of reach out to you, whether they are individuals who want to learn how to tell their story or I can see so many businesses where learning about this is going to be really, really important.
0:55:34 - (Derrick):
Yeah.
0:55:34 - (Marcia):
So what is your special offer and how can people work with you?
0:55:40 - (Derrick):
Yeah. [email protected] we are going to offer those listening to this podcast. We're going to offer you a free consultation or a discovery call, if you will. Where we're going to spend, you know, 30 minutes talking through where you're at as a storyteller, talking about maybe what your goals are. Do you want to speak? Do you want to write? Is this something you want to do for your, your team, for an organization, and trying to really come up with a game plan of what, what the next step is in terms of developing your story. Some people might be listening to this and you might be at the very beginning of this journey.
0:56:22 - (Derrick):
And I have coaching and different things for people who are at the beginning of this journey and they're like, I just need to figure out the story. Can we just start there? Yes. I, I, I am so passionate about this stage of just getting people. I take them on a journey through different creative exercises, through different narrative practices. And you, you will get experience coming up with your stories, but you're also going to have a guide here who's going to come alongside and listen to, to you as we work it out. I kind of like act as, like a, like a counselor, an investigative reporter where I just ask a lot of questions and we really try to get the story out there.
0:57:02 - (Derrick): So that might be some of you listening and others of you are like, okay, I've got the story, but I need to get those five minute versions. I need to get those one minute versions. I need to figure out what specific stories I want to tell for this project or that speaking engagement. So story storytelling for speakers. That's, that's a coaching and workshop that I do as well. Being able to sit down with you and now go, okay, well, what if we tried this story as a hero's journey?
0:57:30 - (Derrick):
Let's practice it. And being able to have somebody there that can, you know, like, if you have a story typed out and I give homework assignments and different things. And then I go into the Google Doc and I say, okay, you know, let's try this and implement that. And it's a really collaborative process. But at the end of the day, whichever route you want to go with coaching and education and whatnot, is at all things narrative. I am just passionate about empowering you to grow your to develop your voice as a storyteller. And I believe that through what we offer, we will help get you to where you want to go so that your story can be out there and that it can not just not only can you thrive, but your story can touch lives and inspire the stories of others to thrive as well.
0:58:27 - (Marcia):
Well, that is the perfect note to end on. Thank you to Derek Hatch. We'll have all of his information in the show Notes. I know you guys will find this useful because I found it incredibly useful. Make sure you listen to it again. Forward it to your friends. Subscribe to the illuminating wisdom podcast, YouTube channel, Spotify, Apple, whatever your streaming area of choice. And also please make sure to check out Derek's website and also his podcast.
0:58:54 - (Marcia):
So thanks so much, Derek for being with us and everybody else. Take care. Have a stellar day.
0:58:58 - (Derrick):
Thank you.
