Transcript
0:00:00 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Today we are diving into a story of courage, consequence, and the path to redemption. Rashbi Aharon was once a high powered Ivy League educated attorney who had it all, or so it seemed. But a single choice changed everything and landed her in federal prison. So in this episode, we're not just talking about what happened, but we're exploring the why and why this might relate to you. What drives a person across ethical lines and perhaps more importantly, how do they find their way back?
0:00:27 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
If you're listening today, there's a reason that you tuned in. Maybe it's because you or somebody you know is struggling with their own decisions, their own battles with integrity. Maybe you've done something that's caused you or your loved ones tremendous shame. So I invite you to listen in with an open heart and mind because Rashmi Study Stories touches on growth, on resilience, and on everything you need to do to rebuild your life. So this is an episode that you do not want to miss.
0:00:52 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So, Rashmi, you and I know each other very well. So I want you to tell the audience in one minute or one breath or less who you are and why they should listen to this episode.
0:01:02 - (Rashmi):
Sure. Thanks so much, Marcia. I'm so happy to be here. You already did the intro. So I will say that I went from being the child of immigrant parents from India with the drive to succeed, with certainly the self induced pressure to succeed. And my entire life, I absolutely define myself. All my self worth and self value was rooted in what I achieved. And I don't think this is a. I'm not the exception. I think this is a very common story.
0:01:30 - (Rashmi):
And so in 2007, when I had the chance to meet this developer, ultimately I made some bad decisions. And I recognize now that I did that based on sort of this innate desire to. To achieve, which in my mind may meant to make money. And as I've deconstructed that over the years, I realized that there was a lot of ego, there was a lot of, you know, other things attached to that decision that I wish I could go back and change now, but I know better now.
0:01:59 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So we're going to talk a little bit about how you got there and who this developer was and kind of that saga. But let's rewind a little bit. You said you're the child of immigrants driven to succeed. So of course, law school. What drew you to a legal career? And do you still love being a lawyer?
0:02:17 - (Rashmi):
So I'll start by saying I'm not allowed to be a lawyer anymore because of my case. Technically, in 2019, I would have been eligible to reapply to the bar. But unfortunately, Florida, as many of us know, is a little backwards compared to many other states. And I am not allowed to reapply to the bar because my civil rights have not been restored, because I have a huge restitution judgment still. That's against me, and I'll never pay it off in my lifetime. And so if that were to ever go away, which potentially it could, I'm up for a pardon right now.
0:02:48 - (Rashmi):
If that would ever go away, then I would apply to the bar and have to the bar exam again. But to answer your question, When I was 10, I remember my dad telling me after something that had happened in his life, I was sitting in the car with him. I remember him very clearly telling me, rashmi, you would make a great lawyer one day because you are smart and confident. And that was it. Success to me meant I was going to be a lawyer.
0:03:13 - (Rashmi):
And I never deviated from that path. Even in college. I had applied to a bunch of jobs, and I actually got job offers from investment banks and consulting companies in New York. And I had already applied to law school. So I actually took a deferral from Columbia Law School, worked in investment banking, and then still went on to law school. The question of whether or not I enjoyed being a lawyer, it's. It's kind of a tricky one. I believe I was really good at being a lawyer. I don't believe I enjoyed it.
0:03:40 - (Rashmi):
And I recognize that now, given what I'm doing and how much I enjoy it. So I compare it to my father who loves being a lawyer. So I know that I didn't love being a lawyer.
0:03:55 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Right? So we've used a lot of terms. People have heard about, some developer, they've heard about restitution, they've heard. People are saying, what happened? Fill us in. We jumped in the middle of the story. So tell us what happened. How did you go? And you're still an iv Educated, I guess. Law school graduate. If we can't say lawyer anymore, I think once a lawyer and always a lawyer, you just can't practice law. Let's be more clear, right?
0:04:19 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
But you did the same things I did, right? You to law school, you took ethics classes. You clearly knew better. What happened and how did you end up in prison?
0:04:33 - (Rashmi):
So I was running my own real estate law practice. I had. I had left. I had worked for a litigation company firm in California, another one in Miami. I was actually a government attorney for the county, Miami Dade county, for a period of time. When I started my practice in 2004, I remember just feeling strong, stressed all the time. I was, I had a small little company, I had five people that worked for me.
0:04:54 - (Rashmi):
I was doing only real estate and I was pounding the pavement. So I would go to every networking event, I would sell my services at the gym, I would, you know, every possible thing that I could do to get clients. And at the time, my husband was a firefighter. So I was the major breadwinner in the family. And we had little kids. My kids were 2 and 3. So when I was asked to go meet a real estate developer, right, in the heyday of realist, the real estate craziness, right? It was 2007, South Florida was booming. It was before the crash.
0:05:26 - (Rashmi):
And I, the story that went on in my head was, God, if I can just get one big client, that would mean volume business, that would mean financial stability, that would mean the answer to all of my problems, right? Then I can make that money. And you know, my marriage was having issues, some of it financial related. So I was like, oh, this will solve my marriage issues. This will give me more time with my kids. So there was this like, you know, I saw it as a solution to the problems that I was having.
0:05:55 - (Rashmi):
And so when I went in to go meet the developer, his two right hand guys were there. He himself was sitting in his office and essentially they began to describe these creative transactions that they were doing. And I know now, and I realize now, I didn't ask the questions I should have asked. As an attorney, we're held to a higher standard and we have a fiduciary duty. And I tell people now not doing something is still doing something wrong.
0:06:20 - (Rashmi):
I know now that I didn't do what I should have done, which is I didn't do my due diligence, I didn't dig deeper in what they were doing. And in fact, the first thing he said to me was, we've been working with a big law firm, but we want to leave them and work with you, it should have been a huge red flag because I should have said, what is it about this law firm that A, they either don't want to work with you or you decided not to work with them.
0:06:43 - (Rashmi):
Because, you know, that would have been very telling, right? Had I dug deeper, I would have learned that they had said that they're not going to work with him anymore. So, you know, instead what I went on through my head when he said that was I was arrogant and I was flattered. And I thought, yeah, because I'M strategic and bold and creative, and I think outside of the box. And, you know, this is what we convince ourselves. Right. Justification goes on in our mind.
0:07:05 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So I'm going to stop you for a second just to make sure I'm clear. So, so far, we have a situation where you're. Lots of money floating around, because some people listening are not lawyers. So I want them to really kind of think about this could happen to anybody. Yes, lawyers are held to a higher standard, but so are you if you're a doctor or an accountant or somebody that's got a fiduciary duty.
0:07:23 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So you have a lot of money floating around. You're on your own. You've got marriage issues. You're raising two small kids. You are the breadwinner in the house. You want to make some money. And the ego of somebody leaving a big company and coming to you makes you say, you know what? I don't want to ask him any questions. Did you actually say in your head, let me not ask any questions? Or do you think you're so blinded by the opportunity that you just kind of glossed over that.
0:07:50 - (Rashmi):
Oh, it was an absolute blind spot. Okay. I don't think I consciously even had any questions. I was so enamored and romantic that the romanticized notion of having this great client. And yes, Marcia, like, no matter what profession we are in, the. The attractive idea of having financial stability is. Is very blinding.
0:08:12 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Yeah.
0:08:13 - (Rashmi):
And, you know, and I will. I'll clarify something. The. The money that we're talking about. So the money that I made were, I say, legitimate legal fees on, you know, in every transaction, I didn't make extra money that was sitting in some bank account. And, you know, in the. Wasn't the amount of money was not the point. It was. It was still financial stability over. Overwhelming financial stability over me having to go out and find 100 clients versus just one client.
0:08:44 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Right.
0:08:47 - (Rashmi):
So I would say over the period of 15 months, I worked with this client, and I stopped working with him in 2009, actually merged my practice with my father's, who's a employer, as I said. And. And then I didn't do any transactional work. And I was growing my. This new law firm with my dad. I grew it by 1200%. I'm an entrepreneur at heart. I. This is what I do. I grow businesses and I sell. And. And when the FBI knocked on my door in 2011, you know, in my mind, I was like, I haven't done anything wrong. I haven't done anything wrong. Do I Need a lawyer?
0:09:22 - (Rashmi):
No, I don't need a lawyer. So I didn't even have a lawyer with me, which seems absolutely insane that I met with the FBI without a lawyer. Like I should know better, right? But I, you know, I had convinced myself that I had nothing to hide. And my files were perfect. They had already been audited, so I knew my files were clean. They grilled me for four hours, and he was like, have you seen this? Have you ever seen this person? They showed me a driver's license. Have you ever seen this attachment? They showed me a document. Have. Did you ever see this email? They would show me an email, and I was answering these questions. Yes, no. Yes, no.
0:10:00 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Because you had no fear.
0:10:01 - (Rashmi):
I had no fear. I 100% did not recognize the reach of the federal government. I didn't. I just was so naive and blinded, you know, sort of internally of what could happen. I just truly didn't think that I had anything to weigh that. Yeah, no fear. So then two years later, I got a grand jury subpoena. So just to give the audience a. The listeners a perspective, this is six years after I met my client.
0:10:29 - (Rashmi):
Four years after I stopped working with him, I got a grand jury subpoena. And I still thought they just want my files, but they're not after me. But pretty quickly, my attorney called me in and told me I was a target, which I also had no idea what that meant. When I realized and understood, I thought I was in a twilight zone. It was like my whole life came crashing down around me.
0:10:52 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Wow.
0:10:53 - (Rashmi):
I was hysterical. I was shaking uncontrollably. And the first thought through my head was I had disgraced my parents. I have disgraced my family and my community. As you know, Marcia, I sit on a lot of boards in Miami, and I thought I, you know, the executive directors that I work with are now going to be affected by what's happening to me. So there was a lot of. Now fear of what the consequences of this was going to be for others.
0:11:18 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Right. You know, so you have this situation where you're now done something six years before, you had some blind spots. You also didn't necessarily understand, you know, what could I have done wrong? Why do I need a lawyer? And then what happens next?
0:11:39 - (Rashmi):
What happens next is I try really hard not to get indicted. And I. I did things that I wish I could take back. Like I. I tried to convince. I. I hired. So my prosecutor's name is Joe Capone. He was a special investigator out of HUD from D.C. he used to be in the U.S. attorney's office in Miami. So I hired my attorney, knew his former boss, I hired his former boss to see if we could sway Joe from not indicting me. You know, like taking personal relationships, like little things that I thought I could, you know, I, I would say that I was very arrogant and blind to the reality of what was happening.
0:12:24 - (Rashmi):
I thought, this is one more thing I can handle and take care of.
0:12:28 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
And because lawyers, that's what we do. We solve problems.
0:12:31 - (Rashmi):
We solve problems. We do. And I'm a doer, I am very action oriented. I quickly learned that he was absolutely going to indict me. Nothing I said or did, he kept trying to get me to come speak to him and he said he would tell my attorney, you know, rush me still has time, maybe, you know, maybe we could talk to her about a deal. But we just want to talk to her and learn what she knows. And I really didn't think I knew enough. Anything I had, I had no sense of what I knew.
0:12:57 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
But what were they charging you with and what were they charging your former client with at the time?
0:13:01 - (Rashmi):
I didn't know initially. So my former client did not get indicted. He was not even involved in this process, which was very upsetting to me, honestly. And ultimately I let go of that anger from a spiritual perspective. I sort of just told myself that like, whatever happens to me is going to happen to me and I can't change what happens to him, so I have to let it go. And, and truthfully, I forgot at was the first step I did was I forgave myself, which was the hardest thing I've ever had to do up until that point.
0:13:34 - (Rashmi):
And then I forgave him. And I, I, I, at that time, actually I did not know that he would not be indicted, but I still forgave him. I then found out he wasn't being indicted and I, because I'd already forgiven him, it was, it was probably spiritually the best thing I could have done for my emotional well being. So eventually when I did get indicted, I got indicted for one count of conspiracy to commit bank fraud and 24 counts of bank fraud.
0:14:04 - (Rashmi):
So they took 24 of the transactions out of the 200 and they attached it to that complaint. And that's what I got indicted for.
0:14:11 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So when you were doing these things back in 2007, 2008, did you think you were engaging in bank fraud?
0:14:20 - (Rashmi):
And I get, I get asked this question a lot. My gut was absolutely screaming, what are you doing? This doesn't feel right. Ask more questions. And I just kept ignoring my. My gut, my inner voice. So I knew something was up. I just didn't want to ask the right questions. I didn't want to know. You know, I say. I say now, like, I didn't ask because I didn't want to know, because I needed to keep this client.
0:14:43 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Okay.
0:14:43 - (Rashmi):
I was comfortable. And, you know, there. I made a lot of assumptions, too, that, you know, plenty of other attorneys in Miami are kind of doing something similar. And I just convinced myself that it must be okay if everybody else is doing it right. Like, right. Why. Why shouldn't. Why. Why shouldn't it be okay if other law firms are doing it? Like, so. And so the learning for me has been, it doesn't matter if other people are doing it. If it's wrong, it's wrong. And, you know, one of the things I've really come to terms with is I got indicted and other people didn't, and that it just is what it is.
0:15:16 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So you get indicted and then you go to jail. Obviously, there's some steps in between there.
0:15:22 - (Rashmi):
Yeah, I. I pled guilty. I served. Ultimately, I got sentenced to a year and a day, and then I served about six months of that. And there's a lot. There's a lot of stories in there of what happened.
0:15:32 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Yeah, yeah. But I want to go back to something you said before, that you forgave your client, and that was the best thing you could do spiritually. We'll get to forgiving yourself in a minute. But what was that process to forgive your client? Especially, I guess, to re. Forgive once you found out that you're going to jail and this person is not?
0:15:55 - (Rashmi):
Yeah, the process was, for me, a lot of prayer, a lot of journaling and speaking, talking to friends and loved ones to the point where I recognized I. I believe that whatever happens in our lives. Okay, now I'm gonna get into, like, a spiritual conversation. But what I believe is that whatever happens to me is meant for me, and. And that's good or bad. And so, for example, you know, I'm a. I'm a motivational speaker now. I'm a speaker. So, like, I believe that any events that are meant for me, nobody can take from me. And whatever's not meant for me is not meant for me.
0:16:32 - (Rashmi):
So in that same vein, I believe that, you know, the developers quote karma. Like, his karma was not this. He has another karma in his lifetime that he was supposed to learn. I'll share that. When I first got the grand jury subpoena, and I was just terrified you know, I. I went to my mom, of course I told my parents, and my mom said, honey, this is your karma. You're going to have to live with it. There's some lesson you're supposed to learn from it.
0:17:02 - (Rashmi):
And, you know, I went through this journey where one of the stories I always tell people is about two or three weeks after I got indicted, way before I decided to plead guilty, we had decided we would tell our Indian community because my parents are leaders in our community. So we called all my aunties and uncles to the house. And I remember before they came, I was so convinced that I had disgraced my parents that every one of these aunties and uncles, once they found out, would shun my parents and walk out.
0:17:30 - (Rashmi):
So now everyone's at the house and I'm sitting on the couch and my mom is sitting on one side, and this one of the uncles is sitting here and my dad is in the corner and he tells everybody, you know, that I've been indicted. You know, he's crying, I'm crying. My mom is sitting here hard as nails. She's doesn't cry. And this uncle here says to me, betty, which in Hindi means daughter, one day that you'll. You'll realize that this is not happening to you, it's happening for you.
0:18:02 - (Rashmi):
So until that point in my life, I had never heard this phrase, obviously, since I have heard it in other contexts. And it really hit me, right, Like, I. I don't know why I'm going through this, but I recognize that there's a higher purpose here. And so I. That really kind of started my spiritual journey. And then once I decided to plead guilty, that helped. So when I walked into prison, I walked in with a very positive, calm sense, like I was very peace. At peace with what was happening, which is very bizarre, right, Because I've lost my freedom, I've lost all my money, I've lost my license, I'm losing the right to be with my children.
0:18:38 - (Rashmi):
There was so much I was losing. But what I had faith in 100%, which was, I don't know why I'm going through this. I don't know what's going to happen in the future. But I have a faith that it will be for my good and I will be able. There was something good that will come out of it, and that absolutely has manifested for me. So. So the forgiveness journey for. For him was necessarily attached to my own forgiveness.
0:19:08 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
You talked about the shame you felt and having to face the community and thinking I was going to shame your Parents also. What did you do to get past that sense of shame? Shame is one of the hardest things for most people to overcome. And for many of them, it leads to lifelong guilt. It leads to not taking certain opportunities. It leads to so many doors that get closed because we imprison ourselves, no pun intended, with this shame.
0:19:40 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So how did you get past the shame? And what advice can you give for others on that?
0:19:47 - (Rashmi):
So the way I have embraced the shame in my life, I would say, is after I forgave myself, I just allowed myself to be completely vulnerable. And so I, you know, my entire life, I always had this armor, right? Of course, Bernie Brown's my hero. And so I. I was armored up. And you can ask my ex husband, most of my friends, the walls around how I allowed myself to feel were. Were very. Were very thick.
0:20:19 - (Rashmi):
And to me, being vulnerable was a weakness, Right? This is something that I think most of us have learned, have sort of been conditioned. And as I went through this journey, I read many of Brene Brown's books. In fact, the first book I read, my first night in prison, was the Gifts of Imperfection. I started to read by Brene Brown, and it helped me understand that I'm imperfect. And that's okay. I'm imperfect and I'm still loved.
0:20:47 - (Rashmi):
And through my journey of accepting and owning it, I called over 200 people in the Miami community and beyond, leaders, politicians, you know, my friends, and told them what I did and that process of vulnerability and owning it. And one of my friends said, you stood naked and exposed for all of us to judge you, and you let us judge you, and we love you more for that. And so that, like, I get chills because my whole life I had thought people loved me for my achievements.
0:21:23 - (Rashmi):
And this was like the moment, like, it brings tears to my eyes. Like, this was the moment that I realized people love me from me. And like, what a beautiful thing for me to recognize that I have done some a shameful thing. But I am standing in my truth and owning it and recognizing that that's a chapter in my life. It does not define who I am. It's just one of my stories, and it has now made me a much better person today.
0:21:51 - (Rashmi):
So the process of walking through shame and owning it for me is 100% rooted in vulnerability and accountability. And like, talking through, having really courageous conversations, which I don't think I was equipped to do when I was a kid and when I was growing up, I just didn't know that was a thing, right? So I tell people I Had to lose my freedom to gain complete freedom, because I live in 100 transparency all the time now.
0:22:18 - (Rashmi):
It's such a freeing feeling. It really is.
0:22:21 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So speaking of kids, how did you tell your kids about this? Because we spent a lot of time telling our kids right from wrong. And how did you have to go to them and say, mommy did something wrong? And what was their reaction? How old were they at the time when you told them and what was their reaction?
0:22:37 - (Rashmi):
So they were 7 and 8 at the time, 9 and 10 when I was in prison. And the way we told them was this. I now my ex husband. But at the time, my husband and I knew we wanted to tell them the truth. And you know, if we go back to spiritually what I believe, which is this is our. This was my karma. I also believe that my kids were going to learn something from this. And I didn't yet know what it was, but I knew I wanted to honor them with the truth.
0:23:05 - (Rashmi):
I didn't want to hide from it. There were many, many women that were in prison with me that had lied to their children, and I could see the consequences of that. So the way I told my kids, it was about two weeks after I got sentenced. We sat them down. And so both of my kids are athletes, and at the time they were playing various sports. And so we did like a. I did like a sports analogy for them. And I essentially said, you know, if you.
0:23:32 - (Rashmi):
Kyler. If you. He was playing football. Football at the time. I said, if you're. The coach tells you to run a five and out and instead you aren't paying attention in the huddle and you go out and you run a seven and out, well, he's going to punish you. He might pull you out for a set of downs. He might not put you in for the next quarter. Like there's going to be a punishment. Maya was playing soccer at the time, and I. So I said, you know, Maya, if you. If you do something and you get a red card, like, you know, the ref might pull you out, the coach might pull you out, but in real life, there are real life consequences and mommy has done something and I made some bad decisions and I'm going to have to go away for a year.
0:24:07 - (Rashmi):
And it was hard. It was scary. The kids were full of lots of questions. You know, they wanted. Ultimately, I think our children always want to know that we're going to be safe and that we will in this, in this regard. They wanted to make sure I would eventually come back home to them. So I was Lucky enough that I had 60 days before I had to surrender. And so after I told them and I was allowed to travel, like I had some miles that I was allowed to use to travel with them. So I, I remember I took them up to North Carolina to my Alma material and we walked around UNC's campus and we went did some hiking nearby.
0:24:42 - (Rashmi):
And it just gave the kids time to slowly process. And then every now and then they would ask me a question like, mommy, can we come visit you? Mommy, what will you eat? Mommy, can we call you? All the things that a little 9 and 10 year old want to know. So slowly I was able to call them and answer their questions. And then one I was away, I was very methodical about how I kept in touch with my children.
0:25:10 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So I was going to ask you if you let them come to see you and, and what that was like for them.
0:25:15 - (Rashmi):
I did let them come to see me. They saw me twice in Miami. I was in Miami for about 10 days in a holding center. They saw me twice there, which was actually pretty awful because it's very structured. They can't hug you. Like, there were a lot of really awful things about it. And it was horrible for them to like be in that visitation situation who they're around. But they, I would say they visited me four times when I was at Coleman, which is a minimum security camp for women.
0:25:41 - (Rashmi):
Actually now they've converted it to men, but at the time it was for women an hour north of Orlando. And so when they came to visit me, it was really interesting because they, they, you know, they just got to be exposed to so much other things that they wouldn't have other otherwise seen. There was a part of that that you had asked me and I, I glossed over the question. It'll come to me.
0:26:07 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
It's okay. Just a conversation.
0:26:10 - (Rashmi):
Yeah. So the kids were very open to, I think, learning about the situation. And the way I communicated with them every day was I would wake up in the morning and you know, after getting ready, the first thing I would do is I would go send them an email. So there were basically like computer terminals that we were allowed to use, but we had to go through a com. It was like a corp. It was like a. I guess it was like a bop portal, a Bureau of Prisons portal to email.
0:26:42 - (Rashmi):
It's called Corliss. So that's how we would. I could email with. They call it the outside. So outside of prison I was allowed to have 30 people on my email list, no more. Of course, both of my Children were two of them. And so every morning, I would send them an email. Good morning. You know, and I wanted them. There was always an hour delay from when I sent it to when they received it. And they got used to checking their emails. This special terminal, the special site.
0:27:07 - (Rashmi):
And I wanted them to receive the email before they went to school every day. So that was my. My daily routine and even on the weekends. So I did that every morning. And then every evening, there was a set time that I would call the kids every. Every evening. So, yeah. And then I would write to them, send them cards, and they visited me when I was away about every other week or every third week.
0:27:30 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
What did you learn most about yourself being in prison?
0:27:34 - (Rashmi):
Oh, wow. I don't think I've been asked that.
0:27:38 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Question finally, because I know you've been in a million podcasts.
0:27:45 - (Rashmi):
I think what I've learned most is my ability to. To ask really hard questions. You know, I think I am able to, like, see through, I guess, in the work that I do. Right. I see through a lot of the armors and walls that people put up easily because we're so conditioned to do so. So I would say in my work, I do. I'm. I was a shine in that. And my superpower, I think, is I create vulnerability. It's like I give people permission to be vulnerable because of how open I am.
0:28:22 - (Rashmi):
I mean, if I'm being completely transparent, one of the biggest things I learned about myself is that I love who I am without regards to what I've achieved. Right. I just. I acknowledge my humanity and. And it's such a beautiful place to be. You know, I think a lot of us live in this sense of the shoulds, and I should do this and I should do that, and we should all over ourselves versus just, you know, acknowledging who we are.
0:28:55 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So you went from being a lawyer to experience something that most people will never experience, public scrutiny and incarceration. So some people experience one or the other, but, you know, you were talking about, you know, for people who are not from South Florida. You know, you knew a lot of people. I mean, you still do, but so you're calling up politicians and lawyers and judges and all of these people. So there's that scrutiny, and then there's also the incarceration.
0:29:20 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So I want to ask, what was the most challenging part of reconciling those two parts of yourself? And how did you rebuild your sense of identity? How did you rebuild or build the new Rashmi?
0:29:36 - (Rashmi):
Oh, God, jeez. You're, like, throwing me For a loop today.
0:29:41 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So pay me the big bucks.
0:29:44 - (Rashmi):
I know. How did I build my re. My, my sense of identity? You know, the, the sense of public scrutiny and, and kind of rebuilding of myself. When I called everybody, I'll be honest and tell you that when I caught, when I started making these calls, I was convinced that they were all going to hang up on me. Okay. I, But I knew, I, I, in my mind, I knew that I had to call people and not let them read about it.
0:30:12 - (Rashmi):
Okay, so, so this is the impetus and the initiative. Like, I didn't want people to read about it. I didn't want people to gossip about it. It was really. I wanted to take ownership and tell people. And whether they supported me or not, I let go of my ego. I let go of that, that fear that I had, and I just made every call. And in the process of making these calls, I did rec. I learned something, which is people are very forgiving of our humanity if they get, if we give them the chance.
0:30:40 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Yeah.
0:30:41 - (Rashmi):
To do that. And most of us live in this world, in this place where we think we have to pretend to be something we're not. We put up an aura, we post on social media because we think we have to show up in a certain way. And there's a lot of ego attached to that. Right. Like, and when we let that, when we let that sort of wash away and allow people to see our true selves, there's. There's an incredible amount of respect that comes from that. And I had not known that that would be possible.
0:31:15 - (Rashmi):
I absolutely was not in that space. And I got kind of forced to be in this space. And so that learning from me helped me understand that my reputation, I thought, would be lost. And yet my reputation, I think now is intact and stronger. Are there people that are still going to pass judgment on me? Yes. Are there naysayers and trolls out there that have all sorts of negative things that they want to say about me? There will always be.
0:31:41 - (Rashmi):
I have just learned to silence them and not pay attention to them. Because the way I see it, those people are not yet ready to hear what I have to say. And the message that I've learned, right, because none of us are immune to our sins. None of us have, you know, are perfect. We've all done things that we wish we could go back and change. Mine happens to be this. And I'm not at all minimizing what I did. Right. I don't excuse what I did. I don't justify what I did. I've taken full ownership, and I've paid serious consequences.
0:32:08 - (Rashmi):
But we are all humans infallible, and that's that. Learning from me has helped me stand in, in this place of shame. And so, you know, being incarcerated brings with it, you know, lots of things. I still can't vote. I can't. I can't serve on a jury. I have a restitution judgment, so I can't take out a mortgage.
0:32:33 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Are you comfortable saying what that restitution judgment is? Because you said earlier you'll never be able to pay it off in your lifetime. You don't have to if you don't want to.
0:32:40 - (Rashmi):
So it's combined about $19 million.
0:32:44 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
$19 million, yes.
0:32:46 - (Rashmi):
And I'll. If you would like, I can share with you who my victims are. Sure.
0:32:50 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
I'd love to hear, because I've heard this before, but I want, I want the audience to hear. Who do you owe $19 million to, Rashmi?
0:32:57 - (Rashmi):
Yeah. The victims in my case are bank of America, JP Morgan Chase, Wells Fargo, and HSBC and a couple of other small banks.
0:33:05 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So basically a lot of banks that have $19 million in the, you know, the cushion of the couch. Pretty much, yeah. And.
0:33:12 - (Rashmi):
And essentially every month I go, honestly, I go to the local grocery store, which, in Miami's Publix, I get. I get money orders, and then I go and I, I go to the UPS office and I send it by mail so I can track it to the clerk of courts every month, and then the clerk of courts divvies it up and sends it. So, and to give you an idea, I have paid thus far over $500,000 to my restitution. Me personally, and I made about a hundred to a little more than a hundred thousand dollars in these, in these cases, in these files.
0:33:47 - (Rashmi):
So I've more than paid my share, I think. But.
0:33:53 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
And so I'm going to stop you. I want to make sure everybody hears this. You made $100,000 from this client over a period of two years?
0:34:01 - (Rashmi):
Yes.
0:34:02 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
You get indicted, the client does not. You get sentenced to a year and a day after pleading guilty. But you serve about six months where you're away from your children, although you see them occasionally. And you're. But you're in a prison not close to where you live. You have a $19 million restitution to places like JPMorgan Chase, bank of America, HSBC, Wells Fargo, all huge banks, many whom have been accused of all kinds of, of things in the past and have had about, you know, policing consumers, et cetera. And I'm anything bad. I do know people that work for all those institutions, so this is not casting aspersions on them, but these are banks that have themselves been in the newspaper for their practices.
0:34:44 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
You have paid back $500,000 and you just have 18 million 500 to go.
0:34:52 - (Rashmi):
Yeah.
0:34:52 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Am I clear? Did I get all those facts right?
0:34:54 - (Rashmi):
You got all the facts right. And I did 200 hours of community service, and I did three years of supervisor lease, which meant when the three years I was on supervised release, I did start doing speeches. And the judge in my case wouldn't let me make money while I was giving those speeches when, you know, people started wanting to, like, give me speaker fees or honorariums. And So I waived three, almost 300 speeches worth of fees, speaker fees, which is pretty significant over time.
0:35:20 - (Rashmi):
And. And yeah, I'm now in that rebuild phase. And having lost everything, it takes a while to come back. And I want to acknowledge that I am so blessed to have the family I have, to have the parents and support that I have, that I know many, many women in my situation that went to prison don't have access to and don't have. So I know how lucky I am. And it never goes unnoticed to me that I had that privilege of my family.
0:35:53 - (Rashmi):
So. But for my family, I would not be in the situation that I'm in to support my children in the way I support them and do what I do.
0:36:01 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
I have to assume that some people listening will say, wow, $19 million. That's the worst thing that can happen. What was the worst part about it, about your current situation? Not going to jail? Is it that you can't vote? Is it that you can't be a lawyer? Is it the loss of the identity of being a lawyer and being able to practice law? What is it? Maybe it's a $19 million. But besides the money, what is the toughest part today, present day, that you're experiencing?
0:36:29 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
What's the biggest loss?
0:36:30 - (Rashmi):
Yeah, If I'm being 100% honest right now, today, the hardest part is, even so, my new profession is giving keynote speeches and leadership consulting services. And unfortunately, even though this is a space that I am in, I just had a client that sought me out. It's a. It's funny enough, it's an. It's a financial institution sought me out through my website. You know, we went back and forth. They contracted with me, I filled out my. All the vendor forms. We were contracted. I had flights booked to go to their conference.
0:37:06 - (Rashmi):
And then at the last minute they said, oh, sorry, you can't, we can't have you because you, because of your record. And so, you know, like, it's still there. It's still, still. There are still people that will make them say no to me. And that is really hard. And when this happens, I'm human. I still, it's hard, like, you know, I have to like, not take it personally. Just, you know, if it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be, but like recognize all my things.
0:37:36 - (Rashmi):
It's still hard. And I, I'm not gonna lie, it's made me cry. Like, you know, it's, it's those things that happen. I'm like, really, like, I have so much I can share with your audience. So that is, in my current situation, the hardest thing, I mean, a close second is not being able to vote. And this being an election year and I desperately want to vote in this election. Thankfully, both of my children are now of a voting age and will be voting.
0:38:01 - (Rashmi):
So two for one. But yeah. Yeah.
0:38:07 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Wow.
0:38:07 - (Rashmi):
I wish I could vote.
0:38:10 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
You talked earlier about prayer and spirituality. Give us a little bit of an insight about how that helped you through your darkest periods and what practices or beliefs that you developed or strengthened and maybe how that can inspire people who are listening who again may not be going to prison, but they are dealing with their own sense, their darkness. They feel like they're in a pit they can't come out of or they feel like they can't get out of this financial moral morassed that they're in. Just like how you were feeling.
0:38:40 - (Rashmi):
Yeah.
0:38:40 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
How did faith or spirituality or beliefs or practices help you?
0:38:45 - (Rashmi):
So I'm really fortunate. My, when I was going through this, my grandmother in India said to me, so I was raised Hindu, but I, I definitely have learned all the customs and the traditions and the stories. I would say I'm now very spiritual person. So my grandmother calls me and says, I want, I want you to do this very specific prayer every day. And so I did that prayer in Hindi every single day. And it's a long prayer.
0:39:15 - (Rashmi):
It's like a, it's a set of stanzas, pretty long. It's like five or six minutes long. And then I listened to as many Joel Osteen sermons as I could and TD Jakes and I went to Shabbat services. So when I tell you that I am an interfaith, open minded, spiritual person, I soaked it in like a sponge from any possible human book place that I could to be inspired and, you know, given hope. And so I was, I I needed it. That was what kept me going, going.
0:39:57 - (Rashmi):
When I was overcome by fear, that's what kept me going. And I'll tell you that Rush me means the rays of the morning sun. So it means the light from the sunrise. And interestingly, interestingly, my, my whole brand now is rise through it. And there's a, you know, I, I, I help people understand that in every, every single day, in every moment when life brings us down to our knees, we have to have the courage to know that we can get through it no matter what.
0:40:24 - (Rashmi):
And I believe that whether it's, you know, for me, obviously I went through many, many hard situations, including prison. I'm also divorced. My sister passed away five years ago from mental health issues. The love of my life died four years ago from cancer. I have had lots of moments in my life. And so we all go through these moments in our lives or we're just faced with the unknown, right? You know, the fear of uncertainty, the fear of what's going to happen next.
0:40:51 - (Rashmi):
This election is causing a lot of fear. AI causes a lot of fear. I mean there's just so many things that we're constantly being challenged with. And so I say there's three steps. You have to accept and embrace the truth and acknowledge it for what it is. It is what it is. Then you have to let go. And what I believe is we have to let go of ego, fear, control and judgment. Judgment on ourselves and on others.
0:41:15 - (Rashmi):
And then you act with courage. And this is an iterative, never ending cycle. We're always, I do this every single day, many, many times a day, every day. I have to wake up and acknowledge my truth. And so that if we can, if we can get into the mental discipline of this courageous process in our head, then it becomes kind of like second nature. I am lucky enough that I've had parents and grandparents that have role modeled this tenacious surviving mentality.
0:41:43 - (Rashmi):
And so I again recognize I'm blessed. But we can all learn it. It's, you know, something like tomorrow, tonight we can just start practicing. And the more we practice it, the more light will shine on others and on ourselves.
0:41:57 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Now you've talked about kind of rising through it, but you also have an ethical framework that you've built. What's the advice you'd give for somebody who right now might be dealing with some kind of ethical dilemma in their career or in their life? How might your framework be helpful?
0:42:12 - (Rashmi):
So what I believe is like from an ethical decision making standpoint, having the mental discipline to commit to a process of Decision making, that in and of itself is hard. And, you know, it kind of goes. It goes hand in hand with the rise through philosophy, but. But really having that courage to. When we're acting, recognizing how to make good decisions, which I believe is four steps. It's. You have to pause.
0:42:37 - (Rashmi):
You have to listen to your inner voice. You have to reflect on what your inner voice is telling you, and then you decide what to do. The problem is, is that most of us are so caught up in this rat race of life trying to get to our next goal, trying to, you know, go around that race course that we are so scared to pause for. For even just a moment because we're worried that we're going to lose a promotion to somebody else or we're going to lose the client, or, you know, we're not going to be able to achieve what we want to achieve in enough time or as quickly as we want to.
0:43:10 - (Rashmi):
And the reality is, is that that's when the bad decisions happen. So if you. If we just take the moment to pause and, you know, we don't have time. But there's so many stories in this journey that I had with this client that had I just paused rather than just accelerating and doing right, I believe I would have made better decisions, or at least I would have stopped and thought about what I was doing and maybe asked for help or asked for a second opinion. I didn't do any of that.
0:43:39 - (Rashmi):
And, you know, once you pause, our inner voice is always there. Our inner voice is always telling us the right thing to do. It's just that we get really good at ignoring it and shutting it down. But that inner voice is our gut, it's our moral compass, it's God, it's energy, it's the universe, it's whatever you want to call it, we all have it. And then when you listen to your inner voice, you can reflect on what your inner voice is telling you and then choose right. The inner voice is going to. You're going to reflect on is this.
0:44:12 - (Rashmi):
Is this right or wrong? Is it ethical? Is it not ethical? And then you can make the best conscious decision that you can, can. But you don't even get to do any of that if you don't first pause.
0:44:22 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Right?
0:44:23 - (Rashmi):
So that would be my advice.
0:44:25 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
So if you could bring a group together of really influential leaders from different fields to have a dinner party at your house, which you'd of course invite me.
0:44:36 - (Rashmi):
Yes, of course.
0:44:37 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Who would you invite and what are the topics you'd want to discuss with them? It could Be about ethics. It could be about leadership. It could be about anything else.
0:44:43 - (Rashmi):
Are they alive or are they living or dead? Okay. I would invite Mother Teresa because of her gift of get. Her just life of giving and service. I would invite Helen Keller, probably Nelson Mandela.
0:45:00 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Let's go back to the why for Helen Keller.
0:45:02 - (Rashmi):
Oh, sorry.
0:45:02 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
And what would you want her to talk about?
0:45:04 - (Rashmi):
Helen Keller? I would want her to talk about her courage. Her just courage in the face of just daunting, you know, in her case, disabilities and her. Her innovation and ability to think beyond what she was able to physically do. Nelson Mandela for his leadership and. And incredible resilience. One of my favorite quotes is by Nelson Mandela, which I absolutely cannot remember right now, but I think it's.
0:45:38 - (Rashmi):
I don't want to be judged by how many times I fell down, but how many times I got it back up again. I forgot what the actual quote is. My grandfather. So my dadaji in Hindi is your father's father. I honor him in every speech I give. He was a freedom fighter with Gandhi during the Quit India movement. On the day my dad was born, he was in. In prison with Gandhi, and so I never got to meet him. He died when My dad was 16, and so I would love to meet him. He was a. He was such a fighter and leader in our community in. In India and taught my dad so much. And, like, that whole idea of, you know, when you learn these hard lessons, you have a responsibility to share it and give back and help others.
0:46:30 - (Rashmi):
I get it from him. I. I tell people that I'm his legacy. I didn't get to meet him, but I'm his legacy. So him I would love to have. This is gonna sound so bad, but I would love to have Taylor Swift there just from a, like, motivational, entertaining.
0:46:48 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Oh, trust me, she's a genius in many ways.
0:46:51 - (Rashmi):
I'm a big swiftie. And I don't know, I'm probably saying really common people, but you caught me off guard. How many people do I have to say 10?
0:47:02 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
That's okay. No, no, no. It was like, four, five. So you talked earlier about Brene Brown, who apparently you're not inviting to dinner, but you do.
0:47:10 - (Rashmi):
Yeah. Oh, I would. I would definitely add Brene Brown.
0:47:11 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Sorry, but you've been inspired by her, as of many people, and she's, you know, written lots of books and talks about, you know, vulnerability and leadership. Are there any other authors or books that have really inspired you that might inspire some of the listeners? And why specifically those books? Or it could be a Movie. It could be a song, it could be a mantra. It could be anything.
0:47:32 - (Rashmi):
Yeah, let me think. So I read a lot, and when I was in prison, I read a lot. Okay, let's see. I have read many incredible memoirs recently that really moved me. So I was. I was. I was impacted by Alicia keys's memoir, Matthew McConaughey. So. So to me, the genre of memoirs. Isabella Wilkerson wrote a book called Cast, which maybe you've read.
0:48:10 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Yes, I've got it. Yeah.
0:48:13 - (Rashmi):
It is a painful, painful read, but so needed in our. In our, in our. Like, we all need to read it to understand, you know, and for me, like, the. One of the hardest parts to read was the part about India and the caste system in India, because it was like such an educational read for me because I didn't. I actually didn't understand how horrible it was. You know, it's like I've seen movies and sort of see it when I go to India, but I didn't understand the. The really bad.
0:48:44 - (Rashmi):
How bad it was. I'm actually reading currently lovely one by Katanji Jackson. And so I would say in general, the genre of memoirs. Right. I'm not. I know. I'm not saying a specific author for you.
0:48:59 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
That's okay.
0:49:00 - (Rashmi):
But I. I do believe that memoirs are a way for us to learn from others and their ups and downs and their. The way they've overcome sometimes and how they've overcome or, you know, what their life lessons are. There's. I. I try to read at least one memoir a month. And then I usually. I usually read one memoir, one fiction, and one, like, kind of self help book. I would say there, there are. I don't know. You caught me off guard. I would have to look at my audible to see who else I've written. I'm listening to. To.
0:49:32 - (Rashmi):
Don't split the difference right now. By Christmas.
0:49:36 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Yeah, yeah.
0:49:37 - (Rashmi):
And then I'm also listening to. Oh, gosh, what's this guy's name? Something. A champion. Hold on, I'm gonna tell you right now.
0:49:47 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Okay. It is.
0:49:50 - (Rashmi):
It is how champions think by Dr. Bob Rotella.
0:49:54 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Okay.
0:49:55 - (Rashmi):
And then the book that I read every single year is the Alchemist.
0:50:00 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Ah.
0:50:01 - (Rashmi):
Because this is what I believe. I believe that at every point in our lives, that book means something different. So I revisit it every year around this time. So I read it in the summers, and it just helps me, like, recalibrate my goals. My. It roots me back into who I am. I love Patrick Lencioni's books, so. Because I do a lot of corporate work, so I love his books. Who else do I like? Is that enough?
0:50:31 - (Rashmi):
Brian Weiss. I'm a big believer in Brian Weiss.
0:50:34 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Me too. And actually, I was just talking about the Alchemist last night, so it's funny that you mentioned that. Yeah. And it's only one. There's a few books I read every year, and that's one of them as well, so.
0:50:44 - (Rashmi):
Oh, it is.
0:50:44 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
I love that.
0:50:45 - (Rashmi):
I love that we have that alignment.
0:50:47 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Absolutely. Rashmi, what's the best advice you received that you did not take? And how do you think your life would have been different if you did take it?
0:51:01 - (Rashmi):
So I think the best. Best advice I received that I didn't take was, gosh, how about, okay, in the professional life, in my professional world, we get told often, especially as young attorneys, ask questions. But I. I believe, at least for me, I thought asking questions meant I didn't know what I should have known. And I, again, I thought that would make me vulnerable, and I thought that was a weakness, and so I never asked questions. And when you're a young attorney working at a law firm and you don't know anything, which is how we all start, we're supposed to ask questions.
0:51:46 - (Rashmi):
And I remember feeling like I couldn't ask questions or that I shouldn't ask questions. And so in the professional context, one of my best pieces of advice to young attorneys is ask questions like, the partners are there, associates are there for you to learn from, and if you don't ask questions, you're never going to know how to do things.
0:52:07 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
Great. Awesome. Now, you work with lots of leaders. You do motivational speaking. You work in corporations. What's the hardest lesson for leaders to get? Oh, gosh, no specific clients. Of course. Nobody's going to go look at your page and say, oh, is she talking about the CEO of that company? No, just generally, as you work with leaders, what do you think is the hardest lesson that they could get? And how might that change the trajectory of their leadership or their profitability or their ability to.
0:52:36 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
To keep employees or reduce turnover? What do you think?
0:52:39 - (Rashmi):
That is honestly the biggest challenge that leaders have today, I believe. I mean, of course, aside, I mean, it all, it all drops down to being able to overcome, you know, any adversity and getting through the challenges. But what I think is that one of the biggest hurdles is the failure to take accountability. So. So, you know, of course I live this principle because I had to do it, and I know how hard it is. So I'm no foreigner to it, but I think the lack of leaders wanting to take accountability either for their actions, their decisions, their behaviors, their thoughts, leads to a lot of unnecessary consequences with it, whether it's dysfunctional teams, whether it's, you know, leaders pushing out content or orders or decisions that have yet to be thought through because they're not taking accountability for what they're doing. So I think the lack of accountability, not just.
0:53:39 - (Rashmi):
Not just, you know, in the U.S. i think this is a global issue. I think the lack of accountability is something that's a, you know, it's a pandemic, I'll tell you that. There's a. I don't know if you know this. There's a docu series that's being produced about my story.
0:53:53 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
No, I did not know that because I was going to ask you about when the book is coming out, but.
0:53:55 - (Rashmi):
Okay, yeah, well, I'll go there with you. So the book is in process. I mean, the book is. I just had a call today with the publisher. I'm hoping to get something out in 2025. I'm deciding what to like in terms of publishing, how to go. The docu series is. Has actually been in the works for about three years with the. With a documentary producer. He is very well respected in the world of documentaries.
0:54:20 - (Rashmi):
Produced a bunch his company signed with caa. He's currently like. He's now shot video for My Sizzle to sell it that is currently being edited. He hopes to have that done in the next month or two and then he's going to try to sell it. We'll see who buys it. I think get it on Netflix. Yeah. His perspective is if it doesn't get botul, he's raising the money and building and still doing it. He's very committed to the project. But the reason I'm bringing it up, yes, it's a great sales pitch for him, but the reason I'm bringing it up is he. And if any of you are out there want to fund it, you know, let us know.
0:54:54 - (Rashmi):
But one of his. And one of the main sort of focuses for him is. Oh, is the lack of accountability. Sorry, Marty, I just realized.
0:55:09 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
It's okay.
0:55:12 - (Rashmi):
Okay.
0:55:20 - (Marcia Narine Weldon):
We'Ll edit part here. Did you have to run? Okay, let's hope. Let's just let you say goodbye. What's the one lesson that you wish people would learn after listening to you on this podcast?
