Transcript
Marcia Narine Weldon (00:00)
According to a 2024 survey by the American Psychiatric Association, 30 % of adults report feeling lonely at least once a week, with 10 % experiencing loneliness every single day. This is particularly prevalent among younger adults, with nearly a third of those 18 to 34 reporting daily or frequent feelings of isolation. Single adults are almost twice as likely as their married counterparts to feel lonely on a weekly basis, although we all know people who are lonely in a marriage.
And despite the widespread use of technology to keep us connected, the effects on relationships are mixed. So while most Americans agree that technology helps them form new connections and maintain relationships, they're divided on whether these connections are actually meaningful or merely superficial. So today we're going to look at these statistics to explore what they really mean for our mental health and wellbeing. So if you're a high achiever with a high stress role, you're an entrepreneur, you're a person in midlife trying to figure out what your next step is, this is for you.
So I want you to stay tuned for the insightful discussion on loneliness, connection, and trauma. You're gonna learn some practical strategies, particularly for people in midlife, what they need to think about when it comes to connection. But before I introduce our guest, Eileen Lemelin, today's episode is brought to you by the Release, Reset, Reinvent retreat for professional and entrepreneurial multicultural diverse women. It's gonna be in Jamaica from February 15th through the 21st. And this retreat is gonna be in a private villa on the beach with a private chef.
This is actually designed for women who want to connect, to connect with themselves, to connect with their best friends, their mothers, their daughters, their nieces, and maybe likely their next business partner. So for more information, click the link in the show notes and type podcast and checkout for an additional $100 discount. Now onto our episode. Eileen, you and I know each other as co -authors in a book called The Speak, Lead, and Impact. We'll talk about that in a minute. And we're also both the same mastermind. So I know you're fabulous. So how would you describe who you are?
what you do and why people should listen to you in a minute or less.
Eileen Lemelman (01:55)
Well, you are fabulous also. And I'm so happy to be here with you, Marcia. I know it's been a long time coming. We've tried several times, but here we are. And thank goodness because we both have a lot to say about a lot to offer to our community. I am, as you said, Eileen Lemelman. I am a licensed clinical social worker, but I'm a licensed psychotherapist.
I've been in private practice well over 30 years. My practice is bursting at the seams, mainly because we are in an epidemic, a mental health crisis of anxiety, depression, and as you mentioned, loneliness. I am a number one bestselling author called To Speak, Lead, and Impact.
I am a podcast host. It all starts with you. Yes, that's our book. A podcast host. It all starts with you. And I am the founder of a sister group, my sister group, S I S T H E R sister group, which really addresses all the issues you were talking about, mainly midlife women who are lonely.
looking for community and looking for a tribe because that is very, very difficult in midlife, especially. So.
Marcia Narine Weldon (03:29)
Now, before
we go on, how do you define midlife? Let's make sure we're all on the same page here.
Eileen Lemelman (03:33)
Yes,
exactly. I know midlife used to be, you know, 50. That was the, you know, score that we used to. I really think it starts at 40 for a lot, and especially for women. Women who, you know, very much so, starting at 40 years old, could just start really questioning where they want to go with their careers, their lives.
Listen, there are a lot of women that are, you know, started out in their career and then suddenly found themselves mothers at age 40, which could really create loneliness, isolation. So I really think of it as 40 and beyond, really because we are really trying to figure out who we are, what we're doing, and adjusting to all different life changes.
Marcia Narine Weldon (04:31)
So that's really interesting. Part of the reason that I talked about the retreat in this episode is that is actually the reason that one of our co -founders, she's close to 70, but she looks like she's in her 40s. And her daughter's just turned 50, et cetera. And we were all talking and she has a granddaughter. So it's a multi -generational thing. And she was saying, a lot of women in our age area, we're getting more and more lonely.
because either we're having different kinds of friends, we need different kinds of friends, we feel very disconnected, and we're trying to figure out what's next. And I think that is so common, even among people, and maybe even especially among people who look like they're very successful on the outside, right? Because then they kind of say, am I being selfish for saying, is there more than this? So what are you seeing?
Eileen Lemelman (05:13)
That's, yes, exactly. Women who.
Yeah. So you gave these wonderful statistics about how young people like the Gen, you know, Xers, I think they're called, you know, 18.
Marcia Narine Weldon (05:32)
Well, Gen X,
so I'm Gen X, because I'm 56. So you're thinking about Gen Z and then Gen A is like the teenagers. yes. Okay. Exactly.
Eileen Lemelman (05:36)
⁓ okay, then it was Gen Z.
Yeah. Okay. You see, now I'm aging myself. I'm really dating myself. I'm a baby boomer.
So, you know, yeah, that age group from 18 to 24 is experiencing extreme loneliness. And I will say, mainly in men, young men who are feeling extremely lonely. But I'm talking about
women who are in that older kind of demographic. Because we, very much so, these women have approached midlife with a lot of adjustment disorders. We're talking about changes in so much in their life, whether they're divorced, whether their spouse has died, whether they're empty nesters.
Marcia Narine Weldon (06:13)
Mm
Eileen Lemelman (06:37)
or perhaps have relocated. I know you and I both live in South Florida, and I think a lot of people come to South Florida thinking this is paradise. They're gonna find the panacea here, coming to Florida where the sunshine is, but it's actually a very difficult time of life to find your community, to find your tribe when you're in your 50s, 60s, and 70s.
Marcia Narine Weldon (07:01)
And 40s. And
your 40s.
Eileen Lemelman (07:03)
Especially
because if we were when we were younger, we had built in community with our children or with mommy and me or with, you know, if we were in career in corporate life, you had, you know, built in community. But when you start to either retire or change careers or empty nest, you start looking and saying, my goodness, I am lonely and I am.
don't know where to find those people who are like me. I don't know where to find safe community that can embrace me, hold me, support me, and encourage me to be me, authentically me.
Marcia Narine Weldon (07:46)
So is there a difference between loneliness and isolation? Because let's take it back. Everybody remembers the time of COVID when people were in their houses. They might have had five other people there, but, so they were isolated. What's the difference, if any, between isolation and loneliness?
Eileen Lemelman (08:00)
Yes.
Well, the difference is, see, loneliness, you can choose to be alone. That doesn't necessarily mean loneliness. But it's social isolation when we feel detached, disconnected, and we don't have any kind of support system. That is social isolation. And what's interesting is you mentioned
Marcia Narine Weldon (08:08)
Mm -hmm.
Right.
Eileen Lemelman (08:30)
you know, how connected we apparently are on social media, on internet, on, you know, our phones. But it's interesting because the more we connect on those platforms, the lonelier and socially isolated we feel. Because like you said, they're not truly deep connections. I just recently put up a
Marcia Narine Weldon (08:34)
Mm -hmm.
Eileen Lemelman (08:59)
a social media post and said, I really don't necessarily like networking because I'm not a small talker. I like deep talk. I like deep connection. And I think if you ask people, that's really what they're looking for. They're not looking for superficial how's the weather, but they're looking for
Who are you?
Marcia Narine Weldon (09:30)
Right.
Eileen Lemelman (09:32)
What are you feeling? How are you dealing with your pains and your struggles? And believe me, nowadays we have a lot of pain and struggle. Most of us are experiencing pain and struggle.
Marcia Narine Weldon (09:50)
So when we think about loneliness and you've talked about issues like adjustment disorders, what is the connection between loneliness and mental health and mental well -being?
Eileen Lemelman (10:01)
Right. So that's one of the reasons why Vivek Murthy, the surgeon general, made, really declared loneliness as his mission and as an epidemic of this, of this really generation. Because when we are lonely, when we're socially isolating, and listen, we can be in a whole group of people and still feel lonely.
Marcia Narine Weldon (10:07)
Yes.
Absolutely.
Eileen Lemelman (10:32)
So
it's not necessarily about being around people, but it's around having these real deep connections. And when we don't really, if we're not in community, if we don't have socialization, we are really apt and more at risk for heart issues, high blood pressure, depression, anxiety.
suicidality, substance abuse, you know, we're talking about alcoholism or drug use. So we are at risk, more at risk, dementia when we don't have the social connections that are so essential. I mean, there are, you know, there was this, I forget his name, but the guy who wrote Blue Zones, and he wrote this book about, you know, areas of the world
Marcia Narine Weldon (11:26)
Mm -hmm.
Eileen Lemelman (11:31)
where elderly people are really in community and held and they're revered and they're honored and they're respected and they're included in generational kinds of, you know, all kinds of events. Those people live the longest and they have the least amount of physical ailments.
Marcia Narine Weldon (11:57)
And I think that is so true because I see it, travel a lot and a lot of times I'll go to a place that's not really a touristy place. So I might go into a village or something like that and you'll see people sitting around the table, you know, or you'll go into certain cities around the world and you'll have people at dinners, you know, at a restaurant and they're there for three hours. No one's trying to make them get up and leave because they're sitting there in community. So.
sorry, it's not the red wine that we all thought it was, and it's not necessarily, you know, the big plates of pasta. It is actually because human beings are wired to have connection. And so I'm curious about that. And what does that mean? Because why would the loneliness lead to heart issues and dementia? I know there's not a causality, but why is there some connection to that?
Eileen Lemelman (12:26)
No.
We are with...
absolutely. I think there is a causality because, you know, we are wired for community and connection. Listen, if we didn't have community when we were, you know, prehistoric, we didn't live because we had to use each other and use each other as community in order to get food, to tend to the elderly, to tend to the children.
Marcia Narine Weldon (13:03)
Mm -hmm. Right.
Eileen Lemelman (13:16)
to make clothing, we had to be in community. So we're wired for being in community. Margaret Mead was asked what was the first sign of community that she could identify. And what she identified, and some people say this isn't true, but I choose to believe that this story is true.
that she said that the first evidence of community is a healed tibia bone or femur bone because in order for a healed femur bone to exist, there would have to be people and community around that person to help them recover and stay with them. Otherwise they would have been eaten by the lions and the bears.
Marcia Narine Weldon (14:14)
Right, of
course.
Eileen Lemelman (14:15)
You know,
there would have been just disintegrated in out in the wild. So we need community. That's how well wired.
Marcia Narine Weldon (14:25)
So speaking of wired, there's a lot about people that talk about biohacking and that's a buzzword. How does somebody who feels totally socially disconnected or isolated begin to biohack their social life to improve their mental health and reduce those feelings of loneliness?
Eileen Lemelman (14:42)
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I've been doing a lot of research on that and actually social engagement is a biohack for, you know, feeling depression or feeling anxiety or feeling loneliness. And so of course, you know, the usual things of, you know, the usual things of meditation and journaling and
and all of that, but I think it's more than that. It's really about risking, courage to be vulnerable in a group. Like for example, perhaps volunteering for something, being in a volunteer group with other people, joining a book club, these kinds of things. And of course, I have to add my sister group.
which is a biohack for social engagement. When we have a community of people that feel safe, it feels embracing, it feels like, I found home. That regulates our nervous system. That actually really allows us
Marcia Narine Weldon (15:50)
Mm -hmm.
Eileen Lemelman (16:07)
to not only be in connection with other people, but it's about making good choices and decisions for ourselves. It's about when we regulate our nervous system, we're able to then be connected to other people. It's sort of like this, know, what comes first, the chicken or the egg? But you you have to have, you know, as Brene Brown,
speaks so eloquently and has done so much research on vulnerability. You have to be vulnerable.
Marcia Narine Weldon (16:41)
So there's a lot of people that might say, wants me to join a book club. I don't know. She wants me to do this. I don't know. Some people are saying, I don't even know if I could leave the house because again, they may not be small talkers or big talkers. So what's that first step before we get to being vulnerable, because now you've added vulnerable people like, okay, now that's a step too far. So let's talk about how to become more vulnerable, how to be comfortable with that and some really specific tangible tips for that.
But I want to step back a second. How do you get that person, right, to feel that they can make that first step to get that social engagement? Because they've been feeling socially engaged. And for those of you that are watching, you'll see me on my phone pretending to type, right, with their Facebook community, their Instagram community. But actually, seems like what you're talking about is leaving the house sometimes and actually engaging with other people. Or can they be connected?
and never leave the house.
Eileen Lemelman (17:41)
Excuse me. I don't necessarily think that you have to leave the house in order to be engaged because listen, know, COVID put us into this new realm. This, I call it that, you know, and I didn't make this up, the hybrid realm, because we can be connected the way we are, you know, right now on Zoom.
Marcia Narine Weldon (17:57)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah.
Eileen Lemelman (18:09)
You can be connected with zoom you can be connected with Joining different kinds of groups Facebook has you know groups that you can join You know, there are ways but there's also I have to say this in -person kind of you know approach cannot be replaced because
We need touch. We need to know that when somebody touches you and just puts their hand on you, have been studies that waitresses that touch their customers, they get bigger tips. People that say, can I have a hug? They feel more connected to people. But I don't necessarily believe that it only has to be in person.
I think, and this is something that we have to start addressing that it doesn't have to be perfection, either black or white or one or the other. We can include everything and still feel connected. How about a phone call? Nobody does that anymore. You know, there's something about a phone call when you pick up the phone and speak on the phone that
Marcia Narine Weldon (19:28)
Exactly.
Eileen Lemelman (19:35)
I hear a voice that is very calming to the nervous system and it also feels very connecting instead of just texting.
Marcia Narine Weldon (19:47)
Right, because depending on who's listening, the people who are in their 40s and over remember that we only used to talk on the phone, right? You know what mean? Texting was not a thing. And the younger generation has actually some anxiety about having phone calls and being on the phone because they think that it's rude or crazy because you didn't text the person in advance. You didn't tell them because, and I think this younger generation who is going to be the next generation, so I'm particularly worried about this, right?
Eileen Lemelman (19:56)
Exactly!
Marcia Narine Weldon (20:18)
They don't understand connection likely because of isolation during COVID. But also even before that, my son is now 28. When he was little, he and his friends would sit in the car, little, mean younger, and they'd sit in the car and they would just all text each other. Even if I said, look, I've got my headphones and I'm not gonna listen to your conversation. It didn't matter, they were sitting next to each other, but they didn't talk. And I wonder about what that means, right? So he's 28, what that means for this generation coming up of just not.
Eileen Lemelman (20:39)
Yes.
Marcia Narine Weldon (20:47)
whether it's face -to -face or over the phone.
Eileen Lemelman (20:50)
Right. I think we're talking or we're really touching on something else, which I want to bring up, which is this climate of fear that we live in. Because, I mean, people kind of pinpointed the start of COVID. But to tell you the truth, I think it started even before then. This climate of fear of
Marcia Narine Weldon (21:00)
Yes.
I agree.
Eileen Lemelman (21:19)
I don't feel safe. I don't feel safe reaching out. I don't feel safe in crowds. I don't feel safe in being with too many people. I don't feel safe that you will accept me. I mean, we are living in a really, without getting political, in a very polarized, divisive kind of climate right now.
And it exacerbates the fear that we have felt from COVID. But I really think it was before that. To tell you the truth, I think it started with 9 -11, this climate of fear that we're no longer safe in our country when we always felt nobody could attack us. So, you know, it's this cultural, social climate that's been really created.
And of course, COVID exacerbated that.
Marcia Narine Weldon (22:20)
I think the US and we have a global audience, but the US is different than a lot of places in the world because we are very focused on individualism and identity. Whereas a lot of other countries, they're more focused on the collective. Right now in the US, and we're filming this in August 2024, you've talked about the political divide where people are thinking about my party, my views, et cetera, but it's still my party, my views. I need to be validated. I need to have my needs met. I need to be heard.
⁓ and less of a view of the collective. How does that, if at all impact loneliness and isolation?
Eileen Lemelman (22:58)
you know, the me and we kind of mentality that we have is also truly a result of the social technology because, know, social media, technology, Amazon, all of those things.
It's about consumerism. It's about materialism. It's about what can I get from me? How do I look? How do I, you know, look to others? Not how are we going to join together? How are we going to really create, I keep saying this, communities so that we all feel like we belong?
Marcia Narine Weldon (23:44)
now.
Eileen Lemelman (23:55)
Belonging is so important. Belonging to a community, a family, belonging to each other, belonging to yourself.
Marcia Narine Weldon (24:08)
Right. Absolutely. I want to go back to something you said earlier about vulnerability. What are some tips for people who are saying, I don't want to be vulnerable because if I say what I think or I say what I feel, I might get my head chopped off, whether it's by my family member, by a friend on social media. I'm just going to be safe because it's not safe. Right? You talked about we wanted to feel safe. It's not safe.
for me to be who I really am, assuming, by the way, that you even know who you really are so that you can be vulnerable. Because I think a lot of people don't even know who they are, much less how to be vulnerable. So what are your thoughts on that?
Eileen Lemelman (24:48)
So that's exactly what I was going to address, that it starts with all the things that we're talking about. Community, vulnerability, know, anxiety, depression, anything that we're talking about today really starts with emotional awareness. We have to be emotionally aware of ourselves.
in order, that's the foundation for all change, for all mental health, is starting with your own emotional awareness. I mean, I am very much, I'm going to be having a master class very soon on unlocking the power of emotional intelligence or EQ, because it starts with awareness. Who am I?
What are my values? What triggers me? How do I deal with anger? How do I deal with my anxiety? When we really connect to ourselves in a compassionate, loving kind way, that allows us, that's the portal to becoming vulnerable and then saying,
Well, I know myself and I know who I am and I feel confident and secure in who I am and I can now connect to you because I'm not worried I'm going to get swallowed up by you because I am solid in who I am.
Marcia Narine Weldon (26:32)
I love that. it reminds me of a few things to tie together. So Brene Brown, who you cited before, talks a lot about vulnerability. And she talks about the importance of vulnerability for leaders, which is something that I spend a lot of time working with leaders who are afraid to be vulnerable. Let's tie some of this together and think about what happens when leaders are vulnerable or afraid to be vulnerable. What happens when leaders
are lonely or see loneliness. Is there a tie with leadership, vulnerability and loneliness that you could make together? Because some people who are listening to this are managing people, they're leading. And I think you can be a leader without a title, right? You can be one person, manage nobody and still be a leader because you get people who want to follow you, you set the pace, you inspire, you educate. So for people who consider themselves leaders, what should they be thinking about as it relates to loneliness?
whether they themselves are lonely or they see it in their teams, and vulnerability.
Eileen Lemelman (27:38)
Well, know, again, it comes back to the emotional intelligence, the aspects of really finding out who you are, finding out how people, how others perceive you. I think as a leader, we need to ask, how do you see me? How do you view me? To really have good
Marcia Narine Weldon (27:56)
Hmm.
Eileen Lemelman (28:07)
communication skills because we don't want to be the kind of leader that's authoritarian because then it doesn't open up any kind of communication flow. It doesn't make people feel safe in their company. It's interesting because I was watching last night something very interesting.
It was a documentary about the Ferguson riots. When was it? I don't know, maybe eight, 10 years ago. I forget what it was. anyway, they appointed, I think his name was Ron Johnson. He was the sheriff in the town and they made him sort of in charge of the whole thing. And he was a black man and he finally,
went and said to the people of Ferguson, we are sorry that your son was killed. And he was criticized a lot by, you know, leaders, by politicians saying you shouldn't have said that, that was not right. Guess what? The community finally felt that they were heard.
They finally felt that they were acknowledged. They finally felt that they were validated. And it actually lowered the entire temperature in the town. And so that is just an example of how leadership can really stoke the flames or can make people feel safe, heard, validated, and want to be part of a collaborative.
Marcia Narine Weldon (30:01)
Right. And I think that that's important because most a lot of times leaders are told don't show your true self at work because you want people to be because people often act the way they were how they were raised as leaders. know, fear, intimidation. You're over here. You know, you're up here. Everybody else is down here. So being vulnerable is often looked at as a sign of weakness. I think it's a huge sign of strength.
because what you're doing is you're showing your team or showing the outside world or showing social media, whatever it is. No, I didn't do so well this time, but look what's possible because of what I have learned, right? And when people aren't comfortable as leaders showing their vulnerability, members on their team are never gonna be vulnerable. They're never gonna go to them for that advice or when things are going wrong, they may hide issues.
Eileen Lemelman (30:38)
definitely.
Marcia Narine Weldon (30:51)
So it is really a lose -lose for any organization, but so many people focus on being that quote, strong leader when in fact being vulnerable is the height of strength because it's so difficult.
Eileen Lemelman (31:06)
Well, know, yes,
I mean, listen, I think that, yes, it definitely relates to emotional awareness, social skills, communication, but I think it also relates to something that you and I had spoken about when we were kind of preparing for this, which is how does that relate to imposter syndrome, right?
Marcia Narine Weldon (31:32)
Right.
Eileen Lemelman (31:33)
And so I think that what we're talking about, and we need to look at, how leaders really are, you know, subject to imposter syndrome. So we're talking about perfectionism. So when, you know, somebody has to be perfect, when they set the goals up here and they can never meet it, that's perfectionism. And it's also can be related to
the trauma response of the fight trauma response. And then we have, you know, after that, we have procrastination. There are a lot of leaders who will delay kind of their, you know, decision. They'll, you know, find everything else to do because they are fearing failure. And that's, you know, the flight response.
And then we have not only leaders, you know, this is runs the course, especially, you know, around midlife women. talking also, we could bring that in too. The next P in, you know, the imposter syndrome is paralysis. When you are so paralyzed with fear that you can't take the next step.
Marcia Narine Weldon (32:45)
Absolutely.
Eileen Lemelman (33:01)
And so that's related to the freeze response and trauma. And then the last is people pleasing. When we, you know, volunteer for many things or when a leader is always trying to please maybe their leaders, their bosses. And so then they get stuck with being overwhelmed because they've accepted so many things and they're not really
attending to their team. That goes with the, it's a new term, but it's called fawning. So it's also a part of, you know, trauma response. And so, you know, the way you know about all this is you need to do your work. You need to do your own evolution of your own emotional awareness and intelligence.
Marcia Narine Weldon (34:00)
Excellent. So we've heard about fight, flight, freeze, and now fawn. And you use the concept of the word trauma. And trauma is a word that people use on a regular basis. I grew up with a father with PTSD from the Vietnam War. I saw what trauma looked like there. I used to work with abused and neglected children for most of my life. Either it represented them in legal cases or other things.
I've seen that as trauma, but trauma gets thrown around a lot in the modern world. Like, my gosh, I can't believe I couldn't get the concert tickets. I'm so traumatized. Right. People think of what it, so as a licensed psychotherapist and clinical social worker, what do we mean by trauma? And then let's talk about what trauma recovery is.
Eileen Lemelman (34:37)
Right.
Yeah. So trauma is when we feel physically, emotionally, or sexually threatened. You know, when we're talking about environmental trauma, hurricanes, earthquakes, a plane crash, a car crash, that is trauma.
But then we're also talking about abuse by our partners, by our parents. We're talking about being sexually abused, being in war, having, and also it's about witnessing at something that is very, very threatening or violent. You can be a witness to a murder and have
Marcia Narine Weldon (35:37)
Absolutely.
Eileen Lemelman (35:47)
Of course, also there's physical, you know, surgery or, you know, those kinds of physical things that happen to us. That's all trauma. When we talk about, you know,
not getting theater or concert tickets, we're talking about an event or an experience that was upsetting. That's not trauma. Although, you know, there's what we call little -t trauma.
Marcia Narine Weldon (36:16)
Or I broke up
with my boyfriend and I'm traumatized. Does it matter how long or how deep it was as a relationship? Right.
Eileen Lemelman (36:22)
Right. Well, right. Exactly. Exactly.
Because that's just, that's an experience. Even when you, your parents got divorced, that may or may not be trauma because it's an experience that you might have had a very upsetting, you know, time, but it's not long term when it becomes long term, when it becomes, you know,
There's layers of trauma. Then we're talking about post -traumatic stress disorder. Because when you're talking about somebody who comes home from the war, they had unresolved trauma. And then anything else that was an experience that they've had at home, it gets added to the level of trauma. So you must address the trauma.
the origin of your trauma. And that's what I work on. I work on, let's get to the origin because otherwise you just keep having this feeling of helplessness and powerlessness and you feel as if there's no way you could, you know, climb your way out of this. So we have to get to the core of it, the origin of the trauma.
You know, mean, listen, you know, I mean, the, the, the, the, ⁓ you know, the, the, the hallmark of trauma is EMDR. It's eye movement. Yeah. It's eye movement.
Marcia Narine Weldon (38:01)
I was going to ask you about that actually. I was going to ask that and maybe you can explain that for people
who don't know what EMDR, if you can kind of explain a little bit.
Eileen Lemelman (38:07)
Yeah,
so it's eye movement desensitization regulation. And what it basically is, is moving your eyes in a certain way, thinking about the trauma, and having sort of like, you know, other things that will just, that you add in so that it doesn't only become the negative idea and notion and thoughts about the trauma.
To be perfectly honest, I was never trained in EMDR. I was trained in a different kind of trauma work, which is called traumatic incident reduction. And really, that's more about flooding. It's about flooding the emotions, flooding the memories, so that you become desensitized. become, you know, it doesn't have the same charge as it once had.
and it's very successful. EMDR is very successful, although some people don't like EMDR because it's something to do with the eyes and some people do not like it.
Marcia Narine Weldon (39:15)
Yeah,
I had a family member who did it and found it really effective. He was resistant at first, but found it really effective. so when you say you flood the person with these memories, obviously people don't try this at home. You need to work with a licensed person because what can happen when somebody, because again, we talked about social media, people will go on TikTok and YouTube and feel like they'll learn anything, right? I guarantee you there's somebody.
Eileen Lemelman (39:22)
Yes.
Yeah, no, you cannot.
Marcia Narine Weldon (39:43)
online or the TikTok or YouTube video that is talking about these issues, you know, and somebody might try to do this at home. Tell us a little bit more about that modality and what can happen if it's not done with somebody who really knows what they're doing.
Eileen Lemelman (39:58)
Well, because I don't go into the flooding right away. There are steps that lead up to the flooding, because we want to really identify what is the most stressful part of the mammary. And then we want to reduce the charge with different kinds of exercises that I do. And then finally, we
go into the flooding. And you know, it's done of course with somebody that they trust, it's in an environment that's very safe. And this could take hours, by the way, because we, I don't let the person leave until their nervous system has regulated.
Marcia Narine Weldon (40:52)
Now, there's a lot of misconceptions about trauma. We've talked about kind of the definition. We talked about experience versus event versus long -term. But what's the relationship between trauma, anxiety, and depression? And what are some of the biggest misunderstandings you encounter or even among people who might be in the medical field but may not really understand how the mind works and processes information?
Eileen Lemelman (41:19)
Well, you know, just because you've experienced a trauma doesn't necessarily mean you're going to become depressed. You know, so, and depression is really about a series of kind of questions and behaviors and thoughts and feelings.
that make us feel very hopeless, black, no joy, stop doing activities. I mean, if you see somebody that stops showering and brushing their teeth and no longer does the things that they normally do, they're definitely at risk for some depression.
depression. Anxiety is about, you know, when we are extremely, our body is extremely agitated. It usually shows itself with agitation. It could be anger. By the way, anger could also be a depression symptom as well. So if somebody is very angry and irritable, you know, a lot of times people report, you know, heart palpitations and
clenched jaw and disturbing nightmares. This is all, and this, all of this is if we don't deal with this, then we run the risk of really truly being mentally, have run the risk of mental illness. Now, how does that relate to trauma? Well, a lot of people have an experience, a traumatic experience.
They don't address it because they don't think that it's a big deal or they're maybe afraid to address it or perhaps they don't even know where to go to address it. This is a big deal in this society. We don't have enough mental health services and support for people to go to.
Marcia Narine Weldon (43:25)
Right.
Eileen Lemelman (43:44)
And also, don't, depending on the culture you come from, you might even think it's weak to go get help for this trauma that you've experienced. So now that can lead to chronic depression. That can lead to full -blown panic attacks. That can lead to really
Marcia Narine Weldon (43:50)
Mm
Eileen Lemelman (44:14)
being unable to manage your life.
Marcia Narine Weldon (44:20)
And that's very helpful. is there, when you're dealing with working with people with trauma, is that something that every therapist is trained to do?
Eileen Lemelman (44:32)
You can't help so!
Marcia Narine Weldon (44:34)
I didn't say whether they're good at it. I asked whether they're trained.
I asked whether they're trained. I didn't ask whether they were good at it. Because somebody might be listening to this and say, you know what, I've never sought out help, but now I've got to think about it. Do I need to go to a psychiatrist? Do I need to go to a therapist? Do I go to a social worker? How does somebody who, let's say somebody's listened to this and they've said, okay, I think there may be some trauma I need to deal with. How do I know where to go?
Eileen Lemelman (44:58)
Yeah, I think that's a good question. And we would hope that most therapists are trained in trauma. It's one of the, you know, it's basic. It's basic psychotherapy 101. You need to be trained in trauma. yeah, where do you go? So, I mean, listen, a psychiatrist, the field of psychiatry is important.
and a good psychiatrist is really gold. But the field of psychiatry has really changed over the years. Basically now, psychiatrists generally don't do therapy. They really just prescribe medication and do medication management.
But you know, psych and and psychologists and someone like me a licensed clinical social work, believe it or not, we have a lot of the same training. And so either one could be good. You know, as a social worker, I will say that I'm a clinical social worker. So I am trained with all mental health issues. But I also use the environment very, very
closely because the environment that a person is in, the culture that they come in, they come from, the family dynamics that they came from is very important. Not saying that psychologists don't do that, but that's what social workers are trained to do.
Marcia Narine Weldon (46:36)
Wonderful. Now let's throw a monkey wrench in there. You're also a coach, and there's a lot of coaches that say they are trained and they're trauma -informed coaches. Any thoughts about what somebody should look at? Let's say somebody is listening, like, I've got a coach, and she says she's trained in dealing with trauma. Are there kinds of questions or things that people should think about so that they know they're going to the right person?
Eileen Lemelman (47:02)
Yeah, I I really think that that is a bit, a concern of mine. Because all, you know, listen, as a psychotherapist, I am also a coach. But as a coach, they're not trained in psychotherapy or mental health in the same way. And so I think a coach can help
with identifying the trauma, perhaps even giving them some exercises about how to deal with, you know, identifying the trauma, maybe even working through some of the trauma. But when you get into some real deep childhood wounds, I think a lot of trauma.
Marcia Narine Weldon (47:54)
Mm -hmm.
Eileen Lemelman (47:58)
I would say most trauma comes from childhood woundings. We were not given the tools. We were not given the skills. We were not, maybe didn't have the attachments that would provide us with the, you know, definite skills to deal with trauma. I think a good coach will say, you know what? I think you need to see a therapist.
Marcia Narine Weldon (48:02)
Yes.
And it's something that when I take on coaching clients, I ask them if they've got a therapist and let them know, you know, and make sure that therapist knows what we're going to be covering. And there's some areas, because I do some work with people with imposter syndrome and there's some exercises that can get really deep actually into those family relationships and family dynamics. And there's some exercise where I will literally say, I do not want you to do this exercise without talking to your therapist first. And in fact, this might be something that you talk to do with your therapist because it could really raise some issues that
that I am not trained or equipped to handle and I don't want to make things worse.
Eileen Lemelman (48:59)
Yes, because if you are dealing with somebody who has trauma and you're not trained, you could actually re -traumatize a person. And if you re -traumatize them, then they will actually, they run the risk of decompensating.
Marcia Narine Weldon (49:20)
Absolutely.
Eileen Lemelman (49:21)
So we have to be very careful with who we trust our brain, our heart, and our body with.
Marcia Narine Weldon (49:31)
Excellent. So I'm going to switch gears a little bit before we close out. We are both bestselling authors in the book called The Speak Lead and Impact. And if you're watching on video, you see I'm holding it up. And I will actually put the link in the show notes. Very briefly, you wrote a chapter called I Didn't Die at 60. Is that good? We are going to put the link so people can buy the book and read the story. But very briefly, what did you want people to get from your chapter?
Eileen Lemelman (49:50)
Yes.
It's never too late. And to have the mindset that we can create the life that we want at any age. I grew up with a mother who was always preparing to die. She was convinced that she was going to die at 57 because her mother died at 57. And she was a young woman when her mother died.
So she was always waiting and delaying happiness, delaying life, not necessarily throwing herself into all that life can offer because she thought, I'm gonna die, so this is not the way to live. And so that really had such an incredible impact on me as a woman.
Marcia Narine Weldon (50:39)
it.
Eileen Lemelman (50:58)
as an older woman, as a woman who at 60 decided to start a podcast, decided to start speaking publicly, decided to go from my career, which was one to one to one to many. And, you know, we're talking about vulnerability and courage and being brave. And I wasn't going to let the age
Define me. I wasn't going to let the age hold me back. I wasn't going to let a number say I can't do something. It wasn't going to limit me.
my embracing life and embracing my dream.
Marcia Narine Weldon (51:45)
That is a perfect way to segue to our last question, because I actually feel like you answered my last question, but if there's one thing people remember from this podcast, whether it's about trauma, loneliness, imposter syndrome, it's never too late, what is the one big takeaway you want people to leave with?
Eileen Lemelman (52:09)
Well, I want them to know that they're not alone.
that they might feel alone, but there are ways to really connect. you know, listen, they can reach out to me. I'm here. I am here. They can reach out to me. They can email me. They can text me. They can call me. They can come see me as you know, as a patient, or they can join my, you women's sister group. You're not alone. And if you do feel alone,
I want you to know that also, and you know, there's more to not feeling alone. Not only you and me can help them, you know, connect, but there's a common humanity that when we really say, ⁓ I am not the only one that feels this way. I am not the only one. There are other people that feel this way and I don't have to struggle by myself.
Marcia Narine Weldon (52:56)
Mm
love that. So on that note, we will give the information of how you can work with Eileen Lemelman. It has been such a pleasure to have you. If you enjoyed this episode, please like it, share with others, please make sure you subscribe on the YouTube channel. Make sure you subscribe to Eileen's podcast and we're going to put the links there as well. And remember, we are hardwired for connection. We need to connect. Take that first step. If you don't want to leave the house, maybe it is.
joining a Facebook group, joining a community, joining a virtual group, but eventually leave the house and have that one -on -one connection where you hug, where you shake hands, where you feel the connection of touch, where you literally smell somebody's breath, whether it's good or not. All of those things, right, are what we as human beings were designed to do. So on that note,
Thanks so much for listening to the Illuminating Wisdom podcast. Eileen, thank you for being such a fantastic guest. It has been great having you.
Eileen Lemelman (54:16)
Thank you so much
for having me. It was a pleasure and it was really beautiful experience.
Marcia Narine Weldon (54:23)
Thank you.
